John Natividad’s Blueprint for Achievement Beyond the Classroom

0:01 Dr William T Choctaw: Okay, welcome everybody. Welcome to the Health and Wealth and Wives podcast with Dr. William Choctaw. We have an exciting guest with us today, a friend of mine, someone that I've grown up with to some extent, John Natividad. And John's going to share some of his experiences and some of his words of wisdom. One of the things that we've learned is that you don't have to be 80 years old to become wise. You can become wise at 30. And John is in his 40s, and so he's, he's, he's learned a lot and has traveled a lot. And so we're absolutely delighted for him to be with us today.

0:44 Good morning, John: John. Good morning, Dr. Choctaw, and good morning to all your listeners. First and foremost, thank you so much for having me on. I'm very blessed and honored to be able to speak with you today. It's always great to talk to you and catch up. Great, thank Dr William T Choctaw: you. So, you know, I, and let me say that I've known John for years. John and his family are very close to my wife. And so, John, tell me what you've been doing since high school. Oh, sure thing. John: So since high school, of course, I went through the, you know, went to college, but I had a circuitous route. You know, I think in high school, there were times where I didn't do as well or I wasn't as effective.

1:28 You know, I was a bad student, frankly. So the one thing, at least, I would say. Is that I had an opportunity to explore different things at an early age that not everything was a linear path. High school for me wasn't a linear path, but eventually I was on the path, went on to get my undergraduate degree from Cal Poly Pomona close by. Started yeah, started into consulting working for KPMG in Los Angeles before moving to New York with the Boutique Consultancy. And that's where my career really took off. I started working with much larger clients. And it was a much leaner organization. Dr William T Choctaw: That's an accounting firm. Yeah, it John: was an accounting firm, but I was doing more data strategy, I would say, from a very high perspective.

2:13 And so the clients were very similar. Of course, if you're an accounting firm, who's the first person you talk to? It's your, your auditors. Hey, I have a problem. Do you have anyone in your company that can help us? And so that was certainly, certainly were my career. Ha has blossomed. I, I Dr William T Choctaw: find it interesting that you mentioned that you didn't take a linear in terms of high school and college. What, what would you advise students who are not who may be listening now, who are not taking a linear route? What, what lessons you, you know, you don't have to go into detail if you don't want, but just in general, what type what, what did you learn from all John: I, learned that. Education happens in many places on many dimensions, you might, you might not be the best students in a classroom, but there's other avenues for you to really learn you can learn and whether it's a trade school, whether it's learning from your mentors, and, you know, there's two.

3:10 Two lessons that I've learned that have stuck with me that were not from teachers at Cal Poly and not from teachers at Kellogg. I went to Northwestern for my MBA and two of the biggest lessons in my life that stick with me till this day. One is from a priest, someone we both know, Father Tony. So he mentioned to me years ago that relationships matter. So at any time when, when, when you're, when you're dealt a bad hand or the chips are down, you can lean on those relationships if you've, if you've taken the time to build those. Right. And I think that to me is one of the key things. The next lesson I've learned was from someone that was from, I guess you could say, not, not Not the brightest individual and, and frankly, he was, he was a member of, of certain nefarious, he was a gang member, I guess, I could just, without tiptoeing around.

4:00 He said to me, everyone has a plan until you get hit in the mouth. I know that's attributed to Mike Tyson, but as an impressionable young man, that lesson stuck with me and I will always attribute it to him. And I think having a diverse education, really, your education just doesn't happen in the classroom. It could be from anyone. It could be from anyone, regardless of their background. And so that's, I think, key with, especially with the way that the world's going, that we hear now a lot of operations and firms are bypassing the need for a degree. Really? Yeah, there's if you can show that you have the skill set, you know, whether it's in technology or whether it's in strategy, if you have a skill set that can really make up for the lack of a degree and you have that experience.

4:44 I think that's you know, an avenue for people. However, I will say that education is still still key, especially for your listeners who might be in different parts of the world. Yeah. Yeah, to give you a bit of, to give you a bit of additional color I'm currently based in Tokyo. The last 10 years of my career, or the last 10 years of my life, frankly, have been in split between Hong Kong, Tokyo, Shanghai, Singapore. And that's where I've learned a lot of, yeah, yeah, I would say that I've traveled quite a bit. And it really started from being flexible, right? I think being flexible and understanding that just like education, your career is not a linear path either. Like, if you take advantage of the situation and you have a certain set of base skill sets that you really believe in, and you know you can deliver with, being flexible on, okay, can you, can you, can you head over to Tokyo first?

5:36 For six days and help a client out. And then for me, that turned that for me, that turned into six years and a wife. So I packed, I packed the suitcase, I packed the suitcase. And the next thing I know I'm there for six years. And of course I had a lot of different stops in between. I'd say one of them being Singapore, I think that that to me was a very big point in my life because while I was in Singapore I had moved in 2019. Really from the from Hong Kong on the back of the things that were happening in Hong Kong at the time, there was a lot of capital flight. I had seen that, okay, this is, I see where the next opportunities in Asia are going to be.

6:20 For me, that was Singapore. I saw the money was flowing into Singapore. Let me go ahead and follow that. The minute I move into Singapore about three months later it's January, 2020 COVID hits. Yeah. And for, for all of you guys are Who are in Asia, you, you would understand, you understand that the, a lot of the lockdowns in, in Asia were much more fierce than they were in other parts of the world, like the U. S. You know, I had a a 30 square meter apartment, 400 square foot flat in Singapore. And for six months, I was there alone by myself. Really not. The lockdowns were so serious that you couldn't meet with your friends or these types of things and as an expat in Singapore, if you leave, you wouldn't be able to come back.

7:04 So I decided to tough it out, where the only person that I would speak to in person was my Uber delivery driver for six months. Yeah, I think that gives you a lot of perspective and it forces you to readjust your. You know, to kind of readjust your what you want in life. And that's, that's what led me to, you know, kind of revisit what you knew me as really just spending a lot of time with family and really trying to give back and do things that way. So after COVID, you know, I reassessed I decided, okay, it's, if I, if, if for some reason I passed away in my apartment, The first person to find me would have been my assistant, and that was a very sobering thought.

7:47 I miss that. I miss that. Yeah. Dr William T Choctaw: Well, you know, I hadn't thought about the whole COVID thing. It's interesting that the thing about relationships, every podcast that I've done, we've done 40 so far, I always end with my lessons learned. And one of those is what you just mentioned, that everything is a relationship. A relationship based on mutual respect, mutual trust, good communication. And if you have that, then you're in good shape. And if you don't have that, then you've got some work to do. Yeah. John: Yeah, no, absolutely. And I've had so many of those experiences where I had a relationship, of course, with a, at the time, a subordinate of mine at my last firm.

8:34 We were good friends. I brought him on to my firm when I was in Asia. And then, I took some time off after Singapore, and guess who hired me into his firm? The guy that I hired, seven years before. So, it's, it's cyclical, and he, it did work. And so, it's, those relationships were, it's, it's, it's, it's a two way relationship. You put in what you take from it, and, and really genuine empathy. And understanding it's like, Hey, I want to help you. My, my goal is for, you know, for, for my, the people that I have these relationships with to get some sleep at night, you know, we work, we have a very, we work in a global economy.

9:17 Work is being done everywhere. People are, people are working at all hours of the day. What I really want to focus on with my friends, it's like, Hey, I just want to make sure that you guys get what you need for me as a colleague, as a friend. What comes of it may come, and for me that ended up being hired by my previous subordinate, which is, which is fantastic. Oh, that Dr William T Choctaw: is fantastic. Yeah. Going back to your experience in that, that small apartment for six months, how did you, how did you get through that? I, I, I, I just, how did that work? John: So that, that was, that was up I guess logistically, lots of food delivery. Singapore was very serious about it.

9:59 Lockdown. So I got through it that way. The other way was really keeping in touch with friends and family digitally, you know, FaceTimes and Zooms and watching, but watching them get older over FaceTime was, was kind of heartbreaking for me. So I, it really helped me get through that time knowing like, okay, at the end of this, I will be able to see them. Yeah, and so it's, I would say I would not wish that on anybody, but I was, I did have a lot of spare time in the hours that I wasn't working. I picked up, I picked up pottery. I picked up Python. You know, I, I started watching cricket cricket is a major sport in Singapore so I picked up cricket.

10:40 And so, you know, I, I tried to make the most out of you know an ideal situation, you know, just to have extra time and I'm alone. I was alone at the time I was not married. So I certainly tried to do as much as I could to keep myself busy. Dr William T Choctaw: And so you use that time to actually to grow. Yeah. John: Yeah. I think the idea of lifelong learning to me is key. I like to try to learn something new every day. You know, whether it's reading a newspaper I still like to read the tactile newspaper when I can get my hands on it. You know, I could be a Luddite at times, even though I work in tech. And so I just try to learn something new every day, whether or I'm learning from something from the grocery at the grocery, whether it's from someone or something, right?

11:23 So I try to, I try to take the time and I think about that actively. It's like, okay, have I learned, have I learned something new today? Dr William T Choctaw: And that's really very smart to, to consciously be aware of where you are mentally and physically and to, and to have, have, have a plan, you know, to have standards or things that you want to achieve as compared to being passive, you know, to be more active and to be more involved and to take charge. Interesting. Tell me more about the work that you do. I was fascinated by the terms of Data analytics and and dispute investigations.

12:05 Now, I think legal when I do that, but I'm not sure. I'm not sure what all that means. John: Sure. Thanks. So from a very, from a very high. You know, as, as a attorney, you would need to understand the kind of the discovery process. And you can imagine the discovery process now with the amount of data that's being generated on a daily basis when we're thinking of items like your iPhone or your Apple watch that gives GPS locations where, okay, where was this individual at this time of day? So there's this real law, huge amounts of data that need to be. Thought of in lit in litigation. So as you can imagine, there's not too many lawyers with that background.

12:49 And so I found this niche about 10 years, 10 or 15 years ago, early on in my career. And it's really just around large amounts of data in a dispute between two parties and investigation by, you know, the Department of Justice or the SEC. And so this, this Is the problem, not just in the US, but for American companies abroad as well. Or any foreign company that's publicly traded in the United States still has to adhere to the regulations here in the US. And so as you can see, that's a very, that can be a very portable skill set. Yeah, so that's me was important. I would say when I made the decision to move into this, I understood it was a niche.

13:32 I, I, I enjoyed the strategy of things more. But for me, strategy is different in different countries. What can get what, what can I leverage? Into a career that allows me to move to different countries. And that was really important to me at the time being able to see the world frankly on someone else's dime but, and being able, but also being able to help clients in different parts of the world and build relationships with people that I would not have. Met if I did not move out of the United States, so Dr William T Choctaw: there was an element of intentionality. But with you, you wanted to find that niche and make sure that you had a skill set that was marketable that that and marketable and John: yeah, there's.

14:15 You know, I can, I can move back and saying early on my career when I started, I, I knew that I wanted to be in Asia. I had taken a backpacking trip right before I started working and I realized, okay, this would be great if I can make it out here. And if I could work here and, you know, do some good, you know, in my spare time while also being able to grow my career. And so what I really thought about is, number one, like you said, the marketable skills. But, but number two, once I was at a large, a firm that has that global reach, I thought, okay, who do I need to talk to? Who do I need to build relationships with who can help me get to Asia? And so, you know, just being very deliberate in your plan.

14:59 being very deliberate and working towards your plan. You might not take 10 steps a day, but you might make half a step. And that's still, that's still progression. Why do you think Dr William T Choctaw: that your plan work and others who I'm sure they may have had similar ideas didn't work, but what, what do you think was unique about the way you did whatever that allowed you to be successful? John: I would say the two, two major things. And really one, it goes back to relationships as well. One, the person the first, person that I worked with that once I started looking, making a deliberate effort to, Hey, I want to be based in Asia. I want to move to Hong Kong.

15:39 I want to move to Tokyo. The first person who I looked towards was the person who I've worked with for the past 10 years at different firms. We might do business together, but she, she, she's one of my mentors and she was really key. And me being able to show all of that thought and effort beforehand was like, Hey, you know what? You're serious about this. You don't want to just come out and, and kind of you know, just party. You really want to come out and do some good work. And so I think that made such a, made such a impression on her that she's been my mentor since Yeah, so relationships. I know I keep on harping on that, but it's certainly for me.

16:20 That's been it. And number two is willing to take risks. Willing to take risks and be uncomfortable. You know, it's certainly before moving out to before moving out to Hong Kong I was taking Chinese or Cantonese lessons. I was taking Mandarin lessons. But I wasn't only, but six months in, I get a call from a client in Tokyo. Hey, can you come over for six days? Next thing I know, I have to learn Japanese. And of course, that's not a, that's, that's not an the easiest situation. It's a very volatile moving from one country to another. Over the course of a month, essentially just on the drop of a you know, just basically at the drop of a hat, I would say being opportunistic when you see that opportunity, you smell that opportunity, you see that you might, you're going to have to put in the work, but at the end of the day, can, can you do some good work there?

17:11 And sure. And so I think taking risks for me was the And the relationships are the two of the biggest things that propelled me. Dr William T Choctaw: I would think that it's certainly to be able to take those risks and to be able to open up, requires a certain degree of confidence. Where does your level of confidence come from? How did you, you know, because a lot of people want to do those things that you've done, but they may and probably never will. Why, what, what, where did you get that that made you think that you could actually do it? So you went ahead and John: did it. It's, it's, it's, there's no magic answer, but I would say preparation.

17:54 I was, I was prepared. I prepared myself at every step of the way. I, I, when I, when I chose my university for undergrad, I picked a university that was very That fit me. Not because it was a big name, it's because their program was something that I could see myself being successful in. Right? They would give me the tools to succeed. I was prepared once I started my career because I knew who the players were on day one. You know, I did my research, due diligence, whether you're using LinkedIn, whether you're looking at whatever anyone's published. And, you know, this is, this is some, something that I tell a lot of you know, when I speak at schools and these types of things, is know who, know your audience.

18:34 You know, LinkedIn, read anything they've ever published, read their books if you can, if they have. And that really gives you an idea of the steps you can take next. And so, that, for me that, it was just the preparation. Preparation and Yeah, I would love to say that I'm a big gambler but I'm not. I'm, I need, I need data. I'm a data guy so I need to ingest as much data as I can to make a decision. Dr William T Choctaw: And that makes a lot of sense that that you prepared for. This wasn't an accident. You, as you said, you did the work. When you picked out your school, it wasn't just because of the name, but you knew what you wanted, and you wanted to see and wanted to make sure that school was compatible and would help you along with your goals.

19:19 And, and I think that, that, again, that level of intentionality is, is a lot of times something that, that we, we don't do as much as we should. We sort of wait for that magic moment, and indeed you create the magic in your own life. John: Yeah, that's that's certainly the case. It's when you see that opportunity sees that you really only if you let it pass you by, you know, and we've we've all done this where you see an opportunity and you. You're thinking about it months and years later, what if I did this, did this differently, you know, I think my goal is really by being prepared is that I won't have it. I'll have I can minimize my regrets later on. Dr William T Choctaw: Right, right.

19:59 That's that's perfect. Absolutely. As you travel around the world. Well, let's let's just say in Japan and Tokyo. But what have you learned as some of the major differences between Tokyo and, say, California? John: So I'd say the culture is drastically different. I would say that you know, it's, the work culture is it's, it's less of a meritocracy, like it is here in the United States, and more of seniority. And so having to understand that and coming in as the, coming in as the guy from America. Or as that, you know, kind of like that expat from the U.

20:40 S., I, I had to understand, like, I'm not here to reinvent the wheel, I'm just here to make sure that it's less noisy. Right, and it's, and under, having a good understanding, coming from California, where we're really blessed with huge diversity I had grown up with Japanese friends, and I had grown up with Chinese friends, I've grown up with European friends, and so, when I made it out to, you know, all the stops that I've made it to, I wasn't surprised because I spent time around my friend's parents. I spent time around you know, first generation immigrants. So when I got back to, when I got back to Asia, it was, I wasn't surprised by anything. And I was really cognizant of Respecting the values, the cultural values, but understanding where I can add, where I could add my value.

21:28 Dr William T Choctaw: Right, right, where you would fit. Where I would fit in. Right, you did your homework. I did my homework. Your experience and that, and that's, that is so important because I think what it does is it sets one's expectations appropriate, at an appropriate level. And it allows you the opportunity to reach those expectations by having a plan. You had a plan. Yeah. And, John: but, but at the same time, and this worthy getting, getting punched in the mouth, everyone has a plan until you get punched in the mouth, right? Until you get punched in the mouth. Until you get punched in the mouth. And you will get punched in the mouth no matter how prepared you are, no matter how brilliant you are.

22:10 You will get punched in the mouth and recovering for that, from that is key. And I would say that's actually one of the differences I've seen in the U. S. versus, you know, parts of Asia. I can say, we're in the U. S., we have the SATs in various parts of Asia. There's the, the, the university entrance exams. If in the U. S. you don't get perfect scores or the scores that you want in your SATs, you can go to a community college and you can transfer into the school of your dreams. In Asia, if you, you have a one shot at that, you have one shot. If you don't make it in, there's fewer avenues.

22:50 From from educational standpoint to then get into your dream school. And so I would say that's the biggest difference where in the U. S. we second chances are easier to come by. So that's, that's one of the bigger differences I've seen, but at the same time, you know, if you're prepared, you know, there's no, it's no fault of anyone else's except yourself. And so I would say just. That's how I live it. If I, if I know that I'm going to run into something bad, I know that it was my fault because I wasn't prepared. I like to think about it that way. Right. And so those are, you know, looking at that, those are some of the bigger differences. Aside from the public transportation, which I miss dearly, I, I am not a fan of driving.

23:33 so I like my hour on the bus or the train where I can read a book. I can read, you know, I can listen to your podcast. I can do something, you know, productive rather than being in a car for an hour to go 20 kilometers or 10 miles and thinking, okay, this is. This is awful. Dr William T Choctaw: That is fascinating. You know, going back to the whole, I like your analogy about getting punched in the way I think about that is I tell myself that I need to stay relentless, that bad things are going to happen in terms of me not getting what I want, certainly not getting it when I want but if it's important, if it's my goal, then I need to stay relentless.

24:15 And I tell myself no matter what happens, I'm, I'm, I'm moving in that direction. So it's, I think it's sort of anticipated again that you may get punched in the mouth, but that's okay. You know, you learn from that and you, you adapt and you move John: forward. You know, to echo your thoughts, Dr. Choctaw, I think it's really learning from your mistakes. And that's, you know, that lesson I hope we all learn at an early age, and it's something, something that will never change. If you can learn from your mistakes, you will make progression. One step, you know, two steps forward, one step back, hey, that's still one step forward. So I'll take that. Dr William T Choctaw: Exactly. Exactly. And I think another part of that is just being grateful for how you're blessed.

24:59 You mentioned earlier about you know, advice that Father Tony had given you, that God is sort of Yeah. Taking care of us and and has a plan also for us and even if our plan doesn't always work out our plan may not be the only plan that's where there's Yeah, John: no and that's you know, that's that helps me get through the day just understanding that you know, there's there's We're all on this journey, and there's going to be off ramps, there's going to be on ramps, but at the end of the day, you know, our goal is the same, and the goal is to really live a fulfilled and healthy life, right? And I think there's so many ways to do that, it's not linear, there's not just one path, it can happen in a lot of different ways.

25:43 When I think about this, when I thought of my career choices, and seeing you as a podcaster these days, I, I'm just surprised how you talk. Well, I'm just surprised to see and to see your transformation over the years, having, you know, as the at your different stages and seeing that, you know, for, for me in my head, it's like 10 or 15 years ago, I never thought that podcasting could be a. A career choice for many people where I see I have friends around me now who are doing the same thing and really doing good work and reaching out to a large group of people and, you know, doing great things. And who could have thought about this 10, 15 years ago? Right? And so the world is constantly changing and we just have to be prepared for it.

26:27 If we're prepared or as prepared as we can be, those punches to the mouth won't be as painful and you'll get up much Dr William T Choctaw: faster. Exactly, exactly. I, you know, and just to add some historical perspective, I first met John when he was in. Probably in high school, junior high and high school. And John basically was the individual in our community who helped my wife and I in our home to upgrade our computer system. And so if you could imagine this, this 10 year old. a computer genius, in our opinion, coming in and saying, you know, Dr. Choctaw, I'm sorry, but I can't fix this computer. You need to, you need to change it, that they no longer make the parts.

27:12 You need to just make a decision to upgrade. So he taught us, my wife and I many, many, over many, many years about improving our technology, how to take advantage of the appropriate technology. It made our lives much simpler. So when he looks at me as a podcaster, he's got to say, you know, that really is a guy. It's, it's amazing. This guy and then make him a podcast at 76. Oh my lord. That's just that's just not supposed to happen and so and we we talk about you constantly lorraine and i'm about how you helped us And and that's why we take such pride In what you have done, you know, we look at you as one of our children.

27:59 I know you're the son of hanshi and and and But, but we, we, we, we feel blessed that, that, that you've been a part of our life. Thanks, thanks to your parents for, for loaning you to us to help us out. And then to see you do so well. And, and, and, and the whole idea of not being linear, I think is just brilliant. Because I think that's where a lot of people get stuck. Young and old. I think a lot of times we older people said, no, no, no, you got to go this straight line and one to two to three to four to five. And some people said, no, I go one to three to five. You know, I go every other number. And I think just recognizing that there is a diversity of approach.

28:42 And you're exemplary of that. And, and, and how that could John: work. Well, thank you for the kind words that it's certainly I've I've been blessed to have you in my life as well as I remember our trips to Mexico for the mission and learning that there's more more to life than that. Chase of whatever you want to take some time off and and I remember this was when you were you've had your you had your multiple practices, your civil service. Yeah, it's still on the weekend. We had an opportunity to go to Mexico and bring, you know, help the help the folks there and it just. Making the most of your time, if you can do it, why couldn't I do it, right?

29:24 And that was lessons that you taught me at a young Dr William T Choctaw: age. Oh, thank you. And I always remember what the what the mother used to tell us when we would go to Mexico to help. She would say, you know, you come here you know, thinking that you, you, you come here to help us. But you actually come here for us to help you, and I, I never forgot that because all of us, whenever we would leave, we were all exhilarated and we felt good and that even though we were giving, we were also receiving, and we were probably receiving much more than, than, than we gave, and I never forgot that that life is about being of service to others, that that servitude is extremely important because, in effect, that reflexly makes us better.

30:10 and happier and more whole and everything. Well, I, I want to be respectful of your time and I, I'm just extraordinarily grateful that, that, that you've come to talk with us. In any words of wisdom that you would like to leave with our audience? Especially the young people in our audience. John: Sure thing. Just be prepared. Be prepared for the next day. Do put in the work today. And they'll be better tomorrows. I'll promise you that. We've been through, we've seen so much. I know how it is to be very, very down, but I also know how it is where, hey, you know what, even when I'm down, try to get that energy, put it into work today, and tomorrow will be better.

30:51 And, you know, I've faced that, and I think that's key. Keep Dr William T Choctaw: on getting up. Absolutely. I completely agree with that. And again, thank you, John, so much for meeting with us today and sharing your words of wisdom. Keep doing what you're doing. You know, I think, you know, God has a plan and you're a part of it. And I think your work and your life is exemplary. aNd so with that we're going to let you go and say, God bless. Thank you. Take care.