Military Values for the Ministry: Pastor Anthony Dockery, on Teachability, Inclusion, and Finding Common Ground

1 00:00:01,180 --> 00:00:03,790 Jesse L Hammonds: Welcome to the Healthy, Wealthy, and Wise podcast with Dr. 2 00:00:03,790 --> 00:00:04,410 William T. 3 00:00:04,410 --> 00:00:09,470 Choctaw, MD, JD, where the doctor helps you unlock your full potential by 4 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:14,320 equipping you with tools and knowledge in the areas of health, wealth, and wisdom. 5 00:00:14,620 --> 00:00:18,499 Anchored in his experience as a business executive, a physician 6 00:00:18,529 --> 00:00:23,410 surveyor for the joint commission, a former mayor, and over 50 years 7 00:00:23,410 --> 00:00:25,279 of experience as a general surgeon. 8 00:00:25,780 --> 00:00:27,960 You've got questions, he's got answers. 9 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:29,279 So let's get started. 10 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:30,490 Here's Dr. 11 00:00:30,490 --> 00:00:31,020 William T. 12 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:31,340 Choctaw 13 00:00:31,939 --> 00:00:33,260 Dr William T. Choctaw: md kd. 14 00:00:33,620 --> 00:00:37,820 Well, thank you very well, very much, uh, pastor, doctor for joining us today. 15 00:00:37,820 --> 00:00:42,220 We're absolutely delighted to have you as part of our Health 16 00:00:42,225 --> 00:00:43,900 and Wealth and WISE podcast. 17 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:48,750 Uh, and, and welcome to our, our Zoom Studio. 18 00:00:50,070 --> 00:00:50,700 Dr. Anthony L. Dockery: Honored to be here. 19 00:00:53,370 --> 00:00:53,870 Dr William T. Choctaw: Great. 20 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:58,560 So let me start off by saying, well, why don't you sort of tell us who 21 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:04,219 you are and, and what you do and, and, uh, what, what our audience 22 00:01:04,219 --> 00:01:05,279 Dr. Anthony L. Dockery: would need to know about you. 23 00:01:05,469 --> 00:01:05,829 Excellent. 24 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:09,349 Well, um, I was born in Orlando, Florida. 25 00:01:09,815 --> 00:01:12,425 And actually raised, raised in Detroit, Michigan. 26 00:01:12,634 --> 00:01:17,235 So, and so that's why I always say I'm from Detroit, because I was an infant 27 00:01:17,265 --> 00:01:20,125 when my parents moved us up to Detroit. 28 00:01:20,634 --> 00:01:25,895 Um, right after high school, I went into the United States Air Force. 29 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:31,690 And after a while I was in the Air Force, went to college, uh, got a 30 00:01:31,690 --> 00:01:37,339 degree, and then started competing to get commissioned, uh, got commissioned, 31 00:01:37,350 --> 00:01:42,779 then started competing for undergraduate pilot slots with the Air Force, uh, 32 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:47,749 got selected for pilot training, uh, during that journey, um, acknowledged 33 00:01:47,919 --> 00:01:50,519 a call to the ministry with the Lord. 34 00:01:51,050 --> 00:01:55,720 And so I was flying and came into the ministry and, um, and 35 00:01:55,729 --> 00:01:58,429 then retired from the military. 36 00:01:58,830 --> 00:02:01,209 Uh, Pastor McCall was retired from St. 37 00:02:01,220 --> 00:02:06,579 Stephen and so, uh, but at that time I was actually looking to go to the 38 00:02:06,580 --> 00:02:10,669 airlines, I just got hired by American Airlines, had not gone to training 39 00:02:10,669 --> 00:02:19,055 with them, but had just got the, um, congratulatory, uh, letter, and And 40 00:02:19,055 --> 00:02:23,825 so, but the Lord had the plan for, to be the senior pastor here at St. 41 00:02:23,845 --> 00:02:24,375 Stephen. 42 00:02:24,875 --> 00:02:27,885 I had already served as a minister of the ed and minister of youth. 43 00:02:28,505 --> 00:02:33,024 And, uh, and then, uh, came on as a senior pastor in 2008. 44 00:02:33,385 --> 00:02:34,705 It's been about 15 years. 45 00:02:34,915 --> 00:02:37,927 And of course, can't leave out my bride. 46 00:02:37,927 --> 00:02:40,015 Got married in, uh, 1990. 47 00:02:40,565 --> 00:02:41,435 Dr William T. Choctaw: Okay, okay. 48 00:02:41,655 --> 00:02:42,055 That's right. 49 00:02:42,055 --> 00:02:43,275 Don't want to leave out your bride. 50 00:02:44,605 --> 00:02:46,695 Let me ask you, what did you learn from the military? 51 00:02:46,695 --> 00:02:46,815 I 52 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,220 Dr. Anthony L. Dockery: Wow, that's a good, broad question. 53 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:52,970 There's so many lessons to learn in the military. 54 00:02:54,020 --> 00:02:56,669 Some of the things that I really appreciate about the military is how 55 00:02:56,669 --> 00:03:02,790 they are really good at kind of breaking you down to really learn who you are. 56 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:07,140 When you are broken, uh, my grandfather used to say, truly when you are broken, 57 00:03:07,140 --> 00:03:08,820 that might be when you're most open. 58 00:03:09,340 --> 00:03:13,490 And so that's also when, you know, I think I had more capacity to 59 00:03:13,510 --> 00:03:16,329 really learn what I was made of and what I was capable of doing. 60 00:03:16,790 --> 00:03:20,409 And the military, to me, is one of the most empowering organizations 61 00:03:20,469 --> 00:03:23,240 on the planet, uh, for young people. 62 00:03:23,730 --> 00:03:29,860 And so at 18 years old, you're making decisions, uh, that are life changing, 63 00:03:29,860 --> 00:03:32,020 life altering, life dictating. 64 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:33,160 Uh, for people. 65 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:38,360 And so, uh, that responsibility really, uh, was something that I 66 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:40,680 cherished to, to get that so early. 67 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:45,079 Uh, I think another thing the military really teaches is inclusion. 68 00:03:45,319 --> 00:03:51,219 You know, they're really about all races, all cultures, both genders, 69 00:03:51,439 --> 00:03:52,420 you know, every, everything. 70 00:03:52,420 --> 00:03:55,410 It's, it's all one big team, one happy family. 71 00:03:55,940 --> 00:04:01,089 Uh, trying to find a rhythm, uh, together, uh, especially 72 00:04:01,149 --> 00:04:03,630 in the principle of war, right? 73 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:08,359 And so, as tensions are going on, it's even more important, uh, that 74 00:04:08,359 --> 00:04:12,299 you can find that common ground and, and learning that we have more, 75 00:04:12,890 --> 00:04:15,799 uh, that is in common and alike. 76 00:04:16,295 --> 00:04:18,555 Then that is not a lie. 77 00:04:18,724 --> 00:04:19,654 So yeah, 78 00:04:20,005 --> 00:04:20,565 Dr William T. Choctaw: excellent. 79 00:04:20,784 --> 00:04:21,314 Excellent. 80 00:04:21,825 --> 00:04:24,784 Um, and I put full disclosure. 81 00:04:24,784 --> 00:04:27,744 I should say, uh, pastor doctor is my pastor. 82 00:04:27,744 --> 00:04:29,874 So I've known him for a number of years. 83 00:04:30,215 --> 00:04:32,994 And as a matter of fact, I've been a member of St. 84 00:04:32,994 --> 00:04:35,094 Stephen's for 45 years. 85 00:04:35,414 --> 00:04:37,575 So I've seen a lot of this happen. 86 00:04:37,930 --> 00:04:42,500 Uh, particularly with your growth and, and, uh, the relationship that you 87 00:04:42,510 --> 00:04:45,039 had with, with, with Pastor McCall. 88 00:04:45,650 --> 00:04:46,819 Tell, tell me about that. 89 00:04:46,819 --> 00:04:50,659 Tell me about how, uh, he sort of passed the torch to you. 90 00:04:50,939 --> 00:04:54,739 He basically treated you as his son, uh, at least that was my perspective. 91 00:04:55,320 --> 00:05:00,050 Tell me about that relationship and how that relationship also affected, uh, 92 00:05:00,300 --> 00:05:02,500 you in terms of what you're doing now. 93 00:05:03,064 --> 00:05:03,465 What did you 94 00:05:03,465 --> 00:05:04,314 Dr. Anthony L. Dockery: learn from that? 95 00:05:05,044 --> 00:05:07,594 Ooh, yeah, another big, broad question there, Ian. 96 00:05:07,595 --> 00:05:10,094 You taught me so much. 97 00:05:10,364 --> 00:05:18,375 I used to say Pastor McCall is a person that was a father figure, that was a boss, 98 00:05:18,865 --> 00:05:22,415 that was a friend, that was a mentor. 99 00:05:23,090 --> 00:05:29,320 Um, he, he really checked all of the boxes, uh, confidant, uh, 100 00:05:29,380 --> 00:05:31,359 yeah, he, he really did it all. 101 00:05:31,620 --> 00:05:36,710 And the teaching of Pats McCall and the mentoring, Pats McCall 102 00:05:36,710 --> 00:05:41,309 is one of those from the school of, it's more caught than taught. 103 00:05:41,989 --> 00:05:46,760 And so, uh, just hanging around him and he kind of left it up to me. 104 00:05:47,325 --> 00:05:49,224 To see and to glean and to gather. 105 00:05:49,604 --> 00:05:52,624 No, it wasn't a whole lot of this is how you should do this. 106 00:05:52,684 --> 00:05:57,794 Watch this It was watch me and you take it and you should get it if you missed it. 107 00:05:57,835 --> 00:05:58,314 You missed it. 108 00:05:58,354 --> 00:06:05,890 That's too bad, you know but um, he really was one that administration My 109 00:06:05,950 --> 00:06:10,180 goodness, there's, there's no one on the planet that I know of, uh, that 110 00:06:10,210 --> 00:06:14,620 understood administration like he does and, you know, a lot of people don't know 111 00:06:14,620 --> 00:06:20,520 in seminary, uh, they don't spend time or much time on administration, you know, 112 00:06:20,530 --> 00:06:23,750 when you're going to acquire a building, when you're maintaining a building, 113 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:27,180 you're trying to sell a building, you know, when you're dealing with the 114 00:06:27,180 --> 00:06:31,485 city and when you're dealing with, um, legislator and all those type of things, 115 00:06:31,485 --> 00:06:33,070 you know, it's, it's just not covered. 116 00:06:33,070 --> 00:06:34,579 And so, uh, yeah. 117 00:06:34,900 --> 00:06:37,550 And, uh, and QuickBooks and, you know, just simple things. 118 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,320 They, they don't go over that stuff, unfortunately. 119 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:42,909 Um, and so having someone like Dr. 120 00:06:42,929 --> 00:06:49,039 McCall to give opportunities to share and to be involved in that, priceless. 121 00:06:49,469 --> 00:06:51,170 Um, and then, you know, St. 122 00:06:51,179 --> 00:06:51,579 Stephen. 123 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:53,999 It's a progressive church. 124 00:06:54,219 --> 00:06:56,219 He was one that, uh, pulled St. 125 00:06:56,219 --> 00:06:58,460 Stephen into the Southern Baptist Convention. 126 00:06:58,995 --> 00:07:04,344 Way back in the 70s, uh, when it was not a popular decision at all, uh, his 127 00:07:04,375 --> 00:07:09,085 contemporaries really frowned on it, but, uh, he understood the mission and the 128 00:07:09,154 --> 00:07:14,704 vision of the Southern Baptist Convention and knew that it was a better fit for St. 129 00:07:14,724 --> 00:07:17,795 Stephen than the National Baptist Convention, uh, which would 130 00:07:17,805 --> 00:07:19,844 be predominantly, uh, black. 131 00:07:19,844 --> 00:07:24,545 And so, uh, he's always pioneered in that way, which then kind of 132 00:07:24,555 --> 00:07:26,505 leads and segues to the transition. 133 00:07:27,090 --> 00:07:31,379 Uh, I was not planning to be in this position, like I said, I was just 134 00:07:31,379 --> 00:07:35,489 aspiring to go to the airline, you know, he would be talking about retiring me 135 00:07:35,489 --> 00:07:39,339 and I said, I literally, I said, I'll be here until you retire, then that's 136 00:07:39,349 --> 00:07:41,979 probably right when we'll be working out for me to go to the airline. 137 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:47,039 And, you know, he wasn't really saying, but I want you to stay here. 138 00:07:47,090 --> 00:07:49,830 You know, it wasn't that we weren't talking like that, 139 00:07:49,929 --> 00:07:51,270 you know, years and years ago. 140 00:07:51,725 --> 00:07:55,425 It wasn't until the last year or two when he was saying, Hey, you 141 00:07:55,695 --> 00:07:59,095 know, this is what I've really been praying about no matter, you know, 142 00:07:59,565 --> 00:08:01,745 so yeah, that's how that unfolded. 143 00:08:01,745 --> 00:08:06,075 And then we had that year together where I served as the executive pastor. 144 00:08:06,465 --> 00:08:10,299 And, uh, and then we had one year where we're both here just really. 145 00:08:10,660 --> 00:08:16,150 Uh, passing the baton, but we already had, you know, 19 years prior to that to 146 00:08:16,580 --> 00:08:19,040 work and walk in harmony with each other. 147 00:08:19,500 --> 00:08:24,789 I can't tell how much I've learned and gleaned and experienced, 148 00:08:24,849 --> 00:08:26,560 uh, with him and his tutelage. 149 00:08:27,395 --> 00:08:29,285 Dr William T. Choctaw: Well, you know, I would certainly agree with that, and 150 00:08:29,515 --> 00:08:31,715 I'll share just a real quick story. 151 00:08:32,054 --> 00:08:36,304 I guess everybody has a McCall story, but I've known him for years, 152 00:08:36,314 --> 00:08:40,124 not personally, but mostly as a physician and that sort of thing. 153 00:08:40,464 --> 00:08:45,845 Um, when he was studying for his doctorate, um, and apparently part 154 00:08:45,845 --> 00:08:49,745 of the requirement was that you had to have advisors in different 155 00:08:49,785 --> 00:08:51,575 areas outside of the ministry. 156 00:08:52,055 --> 00:08:53,245 who had to sign off. 157 00:08:53,285 --> 00:09:00,395 They would read your, um, uh, your, your, your document, uh, your thesis, and, uh, 158 00:09:00,435 --> 00:09:02,145 either approve or disapprove or whatever. 159 00:09:02,145 --> 00:09:06,330 So he asked me, I had someone who's completely outside of, uh, the 160 00:09:06,340 --> 00:09:11,260 ministry as a position, uh, to be one of his, uh, thesis advisors, 161 00:09:11,270 --> 00:09:15,590 and I was honored, obviously, to be asked, and I said, sure, absolutely. 162 00:09:16,059 --> 00:09:21,729 So, he says, and I read it, and, true story, uh, you know, when, when he and I 163 00:09:21,770 --> 00:09:26,470 met, you know, I said, I, I need to share something with you, and he said, okay. 164 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:30,080 I said, you know, you know, I, I read your thesis from, uh, top to 165 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:33,570 bottom, and I said, to be honest with you, I don't understand it. 166 00:09:34,210 --> 00:09:38,444 I, I said, I, I, you know, I said, I'm not a minister, I'm just a lay person. 167 00:09:38,925 --> 00:09:42,345 Um, and I said, you know, you are my pastor. 168 00:09:42,405 --> 00:09:46,694 And I said, but the way I do things, you've gotta be the best of the best. 169 00:09:46,995 --> 00:09:47,145 Right. 170 00:09:47,145 --> 00:09:51,705 You know, it can't just be that you, you, you get a C or c plus 171 00:09:51,975 --> 00:09:53,985 you, you've gotta get the A plus. 172 00:09:53,985 --> 00:09:55,995 Mm-hmm, truth or, so I had him do it again. 173 00:09:56,260 --> 00:10:02,690 I said, I had to do it again and to his credit, to his credit, 174 00:10:02,990 --> 00:10:05,090 you know, he did not complain. 175 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:09,840 He did not, um, he did not say anything that was sort of off 176 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:11,550 the cuff and he said, okay. 177 00:10:11,980 --> 00:10:14,750 And he did it again, all of it. 178 00:10:15,479 --> 00:10:16,749 I reread it. 179 00:10:16,749 --> 00:10:18,800 I said, this is good. 180 00:10:18,815 --> 00:10:20,584 Wow. 181 00:10:20,665 --> 00:10:25,035 And, and, you know, and most people never knew about it, 182 00:10:25,035 --> 00:10:26,074 now everybody knows about it. 183 00:10:28,494 --> 00:10:29,954 Dr. Anthony L. Dockery: Well, that's a good story, that's a really good story. 184 00:10:30,835 --> 00:10:31,225 It 185 00:10:31,225 --> 00:10:33,410 Dr William T. Choctaw: gave me an idea of the character of the man, is what 186 00:10:33,410 --> 00:10:34,633 Dr. Anthony L. Dockery: I'm trying to say. 187 00:10:34,633 --> 00:10:35,244 Absolutely, absolutely. 188 00:10:35,325 --> 00:10:38,685 And teachability is so important, regardless of where you aspire 189 00:10:38,685 --> 00:10:42,715 to or where you have arrived, that teachability is huge. 190 00:10:43,195 --> 00:10:43,475 Dr William T. Choctaw: Right. 191 00:10:43,495 --> 00:10:43,825 And, and, 192 00:10:44,695 --> 00:10:44,745 Jesse L Hammonds: and 193 00:10:44,835 --> 00:10:46,535 Dr William T. Choctaw: my, my coming in with, you've got 194 00:10:46,535 --> 00:10:47,905 to be the best of the best. 195 00:10:47,985 --> 00:10:50,155 I, you know, all that other stuff is fine. 196 00:10:50,395 --> 00:10:51,725 And, and he said, okay. 197 00:10:51,995 --> 00:10:56,365 And without missing a beat, there were other people who were also advisors 198 00:10:56,365 --> 00:10:59,565 that I, I don't, I knew some of them, but I, I don't know that many of 199 00:10:59,565 --> 00:11:03,204 them, but, but that always impressed me along with a lot of other things 200 00:11:03,204 --> 00:11:04,374 that have impressed me with him. 201 00:11:04,644 --> 00:11:09,505 But that, that always stuck in my mind in terms of the, uh, his, his, his, 202 00:11:09,754 --> 00:11:12,144 desire to be the best of what he did. 203 00:11:12,754 --> 00:11:17,305 Um, okay, let's, let's, let's sort of, you, you mentioned your bride 204 00:11:17,864 --> 00:11:19,545 and tell me about your bride. 205 00:11:20,395 --> 00:11:21,405 Dr. Anthony L. Dockery: Tell me about my bride. 206 00:11:21,444 --> 00:11:25,755 Yes, uh, Yvonne grew up here in Los Angeles. 207 00:11:25,785 --> 00:11:30,545 She was a product of California and, um, loves the Lord. 208 00:11:30,545 --> 00:11:35,354 I met her, she was already a believer and we met, uh, I'm at the 209 00:11:35,354 --> 00:11:37,434 church right now and we met not. 210 00:11:38,060 --> 00:11:42,960 Three minutes from here, there used to be a skating rink right over here, and uh, 211 00:11:42,970 --> 00:11:48,490 we met at that skating rink and the way we met, we were both getting ready to put on 212 00:11:48,490 --> 00:11:53,760 our skates, but right when the session was beginning, and I went to put my shoes in 213 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:59,040 a locker, and when I opened up the locker, there was a bag of Burger King in it. 214 00:12:00,635 --> 00:12:01,915 It's just Burger King food. 215 00:12:02,194 --> 00:12:05,405 And so I opened it up and I'm pulling out Burger King. 216 00:12:05,694 --> 00:12:07,435 And I turned around to one of my friends. 217 00:12:07,435 --> 00:12:10,115 Yeah, I turned around to one of my friends and joked and I said, Man, 218 00:12:10,775 --> 00:12:12,395 There's the Burger King in the locker. 219 00:12:12,970 --> 00:12:14,795 And, um, and I said that to him. 220 00:12:14,795 --> 00:12:16,985 And then Jovani, she started laughing. 221 00:12:17,370 --> 00:12:20,795 And so when she started laughing, I, of course she caught my attention. 222 00:12:20,795 --> 00:12:24,004 I looked, I was like, oh, , she looks nice, huh? 223 00:12:24,275 --> 00:12:25,385 Alright, she's laughing. 224 00:12:25,390 --> 00:12:25,890 I said, Hmm. 225 00:12:26,270 --> 00:12:31,175 So, uh, later on that evening, uh, I just remembered that face. 226 00:12:31,175 --> 00:12:34,085 Remember her smile, her smiles would grab me and her laughing. 227 00:12:34,745 --> 00:12:36,785 So I asked her if she would skate. 228 00:12:37,015 --> 00:12:41,925 And, uh, she said, yes, they used to have this session called couple skating, right? 229 00:12:42,575 --> 00:12:46,165 And so I asked her if she would skate during couple skating, and she said, yes. 230 00:12:46,594 --> 00:12:52,145 And the funny part, how in this is, um, as I was speaking with her, uh, I asked her 231 00:12:52,184 --> 00:12:53,734 right off, I said, so what's your name? 232 00:12:53,734 --> 00:12:57,605 And every time we went around going around, we were going by the speaker 233 00:12:57,795 --> 00:12:59,194 and I couldn't hear what she said. 234 00:12:59,795 --> 00:13:02,945 And I could only hear E at the end, E. 235 00:13:03,344 --> 00:13:05,395 And I'm like, What is her name? 236 00:13:05,395 --> 00:13:08,714 So I asked her twice and then I'm like, should I ask her this third time? 237 00:13:08,714 --> 00:13:10,354 I'm like, no, I'm not asking her again. 238 00:13:10,765 --> 00:13:12,365 So we went on with the night. 239 00:13:12,754 --> 00:13:13,824 The night ends. 240 00:13:13,884 --> 00:13:15,425 I asked her Can I have her phone number? 241 00:13:15,425 --> 00:13:19,104 She says no, I don't give up my phone number, you know this soon. 242 00:13:19,105 --> 00:13:21,644 I'm like, okay Well, how can I see you again? 243 00:13:21,644 --> 00:13:25,204 She said if you keep coming here, you'll see me again So, of course 244 00:13:25,224 --> 00:13:29,324 the next Sunday I was at the skating rink and she wasn't there 245 00:13:32,754 --> 00:13:36,635 So of course I said, I'm going to try one more Sunday and see if she shows up. 246 00:13:36,635 --> 00:13:40,884 I came back the next Sunday and I still, and I walked up to 247 00:13:40,885 --> 00:13:42,739 her and I didn't say it's like, Hey, it's good to see you again. 248 00:13:42,739 --> 00:13:47,274 And I didn't know her name, but I just played it off and we skated 249 00:13:47,275 --> 00:13:48,935 again and I never said her name. 250 00:13:49,464 --> 00:13:52,805 And then I asked her that day, I said, well, can I have your phone number? 251 00:13:52,805 --> 00:13:54,844 She said, yeah, you can have my, I get her phone number. 252 00:13:55,290 --> 00:13:57,189 And that night, I called her. 253 00:13:57,400 --> 00:13:58,189 I said, Hello? 254 00:13:58,370 --> 00:14:00,290 I said, I gotta be honest with you. 255 00:14:00,569 --> 00:14:01,840 I don't know what your name is. 256 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:02,789 I don't know. 257 00:14:02,790 --> 00:14:03,549 What's your name? 258 00:14:03,899 --> 00:14:04,420 It's just my name. 259 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:04,910 You don't know 260 00:14:04,930 --> 00:14:05,439 Dr William T. Choctaw: my name? 261 00:14:05,580 --> 00:14:06,909 It's just 262 00:14:06,910 --> 00:14:08,439 Dr. Anthony L. Dockery: like, I said, every time we're going 263 00:14:08,439 --> 00:14:10,189 around, it was, I couldn't hear. 264 00:14:10,290 --> 00:14:12,559 So yeah, she said, it's Javonni. 265 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:15,520 Like, I thought it was like Lonnie or Donnie or Shonnie. 266 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:16,459 I don't know what it was. 267 00:14:19,390 --> 00:14:19,819 Dr William T. Choctaw: That's great. 268 00:14:20,079 --> 00:14:20,210 And 269 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:21,340 Dr. Anthony L. Dockery: the rest is history. 270 00:14:21,380 --> 00:14:22,439 The rest is history. 271 00:14:22,439 --> 00:14:23,484 The rest is history. 272 00:14:23,484 --> 00:14:24,127 It is. 273 00:14:24,127 --> 00:14:24,650 Dr William T. Choctaw: It's beautiful. 274 00:14:25,150 --> 00:14:29,960 I noticed one of the things, uh, in sort of looking over a number of things 275 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:33,859 that you're involved with, and I'm going back to your ministry now, uh, 276 00:14:35,390 --> 00:14:40,220 that, uh, certainly, uh, Pastor McCall, uh, you know, got the church involved 277 00:14:40,220 --> 00:14:43,490 with the Southern Baptist Convention, but I noticed that you've been very 278 00:14:43,490 --> 00:14:47,829 involved also, um, with the Southern Baptist Convention, taking it to the 279 00:14:47,829 --> 00:14:49,579 next levels and that sort of thing. 280 00:14:49,579 --> 00:14:53,770 And certainly the way things are going on in the country, uh, that, that must 281 00:14:53,780 --> 00:14:55,670 be fought with a lot of challenges. 282 00:14:55,670 --> 00:14:59,550 What, what are some of the things that you've learned, uh, as you've dealt in 283 00:14:59,569 --> 00:15:03,890 the executive, uh, boards of the, um, uh, 284 00:15:03,939 --> 00:15:05,479 Dr. Anthony L. Dockery: Southern Baptist Organization. 285 00:15:05,620 --> 00:15:06,770 Yeah, another good question. 286 00:15:07,310 --> 00:15:12,600 You know, um, and you've been on many boards as well, you know, we're around 287 00:15:12,650 --> 00:15:18,565 different people, whether It is those that come and, uh, help us with our 288 00:15:18,565 --> 00:15:25,305 lawn, or they come and help us with our roughage and rummage and everything else. 289 00:15:25,384 --> 00:15:31,635 People that help draw blood, or a doctor, or a lawyer, minister, or whatever. 290 00:15:32,170 --> 00:15:34,730 You know, that common thread, that common denominator leaks 291 00:15:34,810 --> 00:15:36,830 out that people are people. 292 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:43,950 And that's what I see more than anything, even at the executive leadership levels 293 00:15:44,009 --> 00:15:45,250 in the Southern Baptist Convention. 294 00:15:45,259 --> 00:15:49,194 You know, sometimes You think, well, this was going to be a little different, right? 295 00:15:49,194 --> 00:15:52,625 I can remember thinking, well, you know, if I learned this skill, get 296 00:15:52,625 --> 00:15:54,314 around this group, they're going to be a little bit different. 297 00:15:54,585 --> 00:15:57,274 Then you think, Oh, when I get around this group, Oh, they're 298 00:15:57,274 --> 00:15:58,504 going to be a little bit different. 299 00:16:01,084 --> 00:16:03,204 Find out it's just all people. 300 00:16:03,204 --> 00:16:06,639 And I think I've had the same thing, even thinking with. 301 00:16:07,170 --> 00:16:09,859 You know, a whole lot of pastors get together planning this and, you 302 00:16:09,860 --> 00:16:14,979 know, there's 14, uh, what was it, 50, 000 churches, 14 million people 303 00:16:14,979 --> 00:16:16,349 in Southern Baptist Convention. 304 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:19,360 Oh yes, this, this is going to be different, right? 305 00:16:20,050 --> 00:16:20,929 It's not different. 306 00:16:20,929 --> 00:16:26,100 It's still dealing with people that are fraught with brokenness, right? 307 00:16:26,330 --> 00:16:28,820 And, and so that becomes a challenge. 308 00:16:28,820 --> 00:16:30,180 And so it just looks the same. 309 00:16:30,180 --> 00:16:31,120 It smells the same. 310 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:32,090 It tastes the same. 311 00:16:32,090 --> 00:16:32,700 It is the same. 312 00:16:33,050 --> 00:16:36,419 Um, and so, but it's a blessing to be there. 313 00:16:36,745 --> 00:16:41,205 Uh, and have a seat at the table, uh, to have a voice and be a part of the 314 00:16:41,215 --> 00:16:46,214 steering mechanism for the institution as it, you know, it benefits, uh, St. 315 00:16:46,225 --> 00:16:49,875 Stephen, of course, and it benefits the kingdom and it benefits SBC. 316 00:16:51,165 --> 00:16:56,455 Uh, and you know, it's no secret that SBC has been predominantly Caucasian 317 00:16:56,655 --> 00:16:58,555 for, you know, since its inception. 318 00:16:58,925 --> 00:17:04,324 And so, having inclusion is still a major task and a major piece 319 00:17:04,334 --> 00:17:08,364 for them, but it's, it's actually happening now and that's, that's huge. 320 00:17:08,584 --> 00:17:11,845 Uh, there are a lot of other sensitive issues that are not 321 00:17:11,845 --> 00:17:15,524 only spiritual, but they're also political and they're also social. 322 00:17:16,010 --> 00:17:22,240 You know, like immigration, or, or dealing with racial social issues, or dealing 323 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:27,430 with women in ministry and their role and what they can or cannot do, um, you 324 00:17:27,430 --> 00:17:33,330 know, uh, even legal issues of pastors and people that have broken the law. 325 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:37,290 how they've treated people very similar to what happened with, uh, 326 00:17:37,390 --> 00:17:42,190 the Catholic priests and sexual abuse and, you know, child molestation. 327 00:17:42,209 --> 00:17:45,470 Oh, I mean, it's just, it's just the full gamut is there. 328 00:17:45,470 --> 00:17:47,400 So again, I go back to where I started. 329 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:51,739 It's people gone people as we've had in the message here at St. 330 00:17:52,490 --> 00:17:52,950 What, what do 331 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:53,579 Dr William T. Choctaw: you think? 332 00:17:53,629 --> 00:17:57,659 And, and this is my last Southern Baptist question, but what, what, what 333 00:17:57,659 --> 00:18:03,440 do you think is your What do you bring to the table, um, that can help them 334 00:18:03,470 --> 00:18:07,770 in your front, from your perspective, in terms of where they are now? 335 00:18:08,010 --> 00:18:09,290 What do you try to bring to the 336 00:18:09,290 --> 00:18:10,680 Dr. Anthony L. Dockery: table with that? 337 00:18:11,239 --> 00:18:12,509 Yeah, another good question. 338 00:18:12,850 --> 00:18:17,049 I think what, what I have been able to bring in most places 339 00:18:17,050 --> 00:18:20,380 that I am, uh, blessed to serve. 340 00:18:20,685 --> 00:18:26,635 Is toleration and just that gift of trying to be a peacemaker, uh, trying 341 00:18:26,635 --> 00:18:30,395 to, trying to bring the two or the three or the four parts together to 342 00:18:30,465 --> 00:18:37,194 find where there is harmony, where there is some common ground, uh, to kind of 343 00:18:37,224 --> 00:18:43,584 bring down some of the edginess and the tension, uh, that for sure, and then just 344 00:18:43,615 --> 00:18:46,195 praying for godly wisdom in direction. 345 00:18:46,855 --> 00:18:51,515 You know, uh, as, as we're engaging in this more, learning a lot of people 346 00:18:51,515 --> 00:18:56,205 make decisions from an emotional place, uh, from a world view that isn't 347 00:18:56,205 --> 00:19:01,205 necessarily informed by a biblical view, uh, and, you know, just really trying 348 00:19:01,205 --> 00:19:05,470 to give those subtle reminders that This is bigger than all of us, right? 349 00:19:05,940 --> 00:19:09,629 All of us, we gotta put our own personal agendas on the back burner. 350 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:14,720 And you would think that simple and that that would be there, but unfortunately, 351 00:19:15,070 --> 00:19:19,350 uh, people get so passionate and so fixated on their own thing that they start 352 00:19:19,449 --> 00:19:22,100 missing or really do miss the main thing. 353 00:19:22,910 --> 00:19:26,860 So, um, and just helping people to hear one another. 354 00:19:27,340 --> 00:19:27,690 Yeah. 355 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:31,210 You know, uh, and just sharing simple facts like this. 356 00:19:31,239 --> 00:19:35,740 Like, Uh, in our marriage, or in our friendships, or with our neighbor, 357 00:19:36,249 --> 00:19:42,120 people talk from a position of facts and feelings, and when you are listening, you 358 00:19:42,120 --> 00:19:45,799 should listen to whether or not they're sharing a fact, or if they're sharing 359 00:19:45,799 --> 00:19:50,620 a feeling, and if they're sharing a fact, you should answer or reply with a 360 00:19:50,620 --> 00:19:54,915 fact, but if they're sharing a feeling, you should You shouldn't answer with 361 00:19:54,915 --> 00:19:56,615 a fact, you should answer with a feel. 362 00:19:56,935 --> 00:20:01,685 And just those simple things that I think kind of fly over people's heads 363 00:20:01,895 --> 00:20:03,605 in marriage and things like that. 364 00:20:03,605 --> 00:20:06,645 When a wife says she doesn't have anything to wear, uh, 365 00:20:06,784 --> 00:20:08,624 that's not really a fact, right? 366 00:20:08,705 --> 00:20:10,965 Because fact is, the closet's full. 367 00:20:11,415 --> 00:20:12,295 Right, right. 368 00:20:12,535 --> 00:20:15,675 But what she's really saying is, I don't feel like there's anything in 369 00:20:15,675 --> 00:20:16,595 here that I want to put onto there. 370 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:18,020 Yes. 371 00:20:18,260 --> 00:20:22,560 And so, us answering with, the fact is, you got, you got clothes in 372 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,280 this closet, you got clothes in that closet, you got clothes in this closet. 373 00:20:25,639 --> 00:20:27,720 Yeah, that's, that's not the answer you're looking for. 374 00:20:27,750 --> 00:20:29,999 The answer you're looking for, well, what's, what's going on with you today? 375 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,090 I, I can sense that you're not feeling alright. 376 00:20:32,090 --> 00:20:34,300 Well, then I give a feeling for a feeling. 377 00:20:34,889 --> 00:20:35,389 Yes. 378 00:20:35,790 --> 00:20:36,459 So it helps. 379 00:20:36,860 --> 00:20:37,189 Yeah. 380 00:20:37,270 --> 00:20:37,749 Good question. 381 00:20:38,310 --> 00:20:40,640 Dr William T. Choctaw: I think one of the things that, that you have, 382 00:20:41,035 --> 00:20:44,985 One of the ways that you have grown, and as an observer, I've watched 383 00:20:45,235 --> 00:20:52,035 this over a number of years, is your ability to work with others, um, that, 384 00:20:52,095 --> 00:20:55,004 that embraces a diversity approach. 385 00:20:55,274 --> 00:20:58,465 And I don't mean diversity just in terms of race and that, I 386 00:20:58,465 --> 00:20:59,894 mean diversity total, total. 387 00:21:00,375 --> 00:21:05,805 Um, um, and one of the things I've always believed that everything is a relationship 388 00:21:05,815 --> 00:21:09,505 and, you know, mutual respect, mutual trust and good communication. 389 00:21:09,955 --> 00:21:13,015 One of the things that I have noticed in St. 390 00:21:13,015 --> 00:21:18,155 Stephen's, the church that you pastor, that you actually have, uh, a, a 391 00:21:18,205 --> 00:21:21,625 combination of cultures in the church. 392 00:21:21,625 --> 00:21:28,314 Uh, you have a, a Spanish language ministry that's mixed in with, with 393 00:21:28,315 --> 00:21:31,035 a basic Southern Baptist ministry. 394 00:21:31,415 --> 00:21:36,365 Uh, you're a predominantly African American church that's in a neighborhood 395 00:21:36,675 --> 00:21:38,985 or a city that's predominantly Hispanic. 396 00:21:39,364 --> 00:21:40,605 You have a food bank. 397 00:21:40,955 --> 00:21:43,715 that serves a large percentage of Asians. 398 00:21:44,215 --> 00:21:51,074 So, tell me what it is that you do that allows you to emphasize 399 00:21:51,115 --> 00:21:55,205 or to bring out the strength of that, of those diversities. 400 00:21:55,555 --> 00:21:58,075 A lot of people say, oh my goodness, we can't do this, you know. 401 00:21:58,310 --> 00:21:59,010 Blah, blah, blah. 402 00:21:59,179 --> 00:22:01,679 But you, you appear to thrive as a leader. 403 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,820 I mean, as a leader in this particular environment, what, what, what do you use? 404 00:22:05,899 --> 00:22:07,480 How does that work for you? 405 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,690 What do you use to keep everybody moving in the same direction, 406 00:22:10,730 --> 00:22:11,510 even though they're very 407 00:22:11,569 --> 00:22:11,879 Dr. Anthony L. Dockery: diverse? 408 00:22:13,504 --> 00:22:15,014 Yeah, another another good question. 409 00:22:15,014 --> 00:22:19,165 And like I said at the beginning, I think that really goes back from the 410 00:22:19,165 --> 00:22:25,405 military and seeing how they're so diverse and understanding gifts and 411 00:22:25,405 --> 00:22:28,185 talents and the strength and diversity. 412 00:22:28,694 --> 00:22:31,964 Um, and, and then kind of learning culture. 413 00:22:31,964 --> 00:22:36,455 So another thing the military does is you, you travel to different places 414 00:22:36,535 --> 00:22:38,025 and you have different exposure. 415 00:22:38,405 --> 00:22:40,035 And you learn how to connect. 416 00:22:40,075 --> 00:22:43,975 You learn the simple things that help, uh, to build bridges. 417 00:22:44,335 --> 00:22:47,545 And, uh, you also learn the things that can be a tad bit 418 00:22:47,605 --> 00:22:50,075 offensive and, and put off people. 419 00:22:50,564 --> 00:22:55,834 And so, just those simple things, you know, now, if you hit those major 420 00:22:55,834 --> 00:23:00,324 continents, if you've been to Europe, been to China, and, of course, you've 421 00:23:00,355 --> 00:23:04,024 been down under, and you've been to some of these major places, it gets 422 00:23:04,024 --> 00:23:10,545 to the place where you can kind of Connect on some level with almost anyone 423 00:23:10,795 --> 00:23:13,204 or any culture that you intersect. 424 00:23:13,705 --> 00:23:18,405 And as soon as that happens, then you have almost like you need an 425 00:23:18,445 --> 00:23:22,265 asset that's willing to kind of work with you because they know you're 426 00:23:22,265 --> 00:23:26,625 sensitive to their culture, or you're sensitive to their race, or you're 427 00:23:26,795 --> 00:23:31,504 sensitive to their worldview, or you're sensitive to their purpose and 428 00:23:31,504 --> 00:23:33,095 what they're trying to accomplish. 429 00:23:33,825 --> 00:23:38,495 And once people know that you care about what they care about, yeah, it's 430 00:23:38,735 --> 00:23:42,064 easy because most of us, we just try to push and promote what we care about. 431 00:23:43,220 --> 00:23:48,400 Just take that moment to say, you know, so in Chinese culture, you know, matter 432 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:55,729 of fact, I'll just give it, um, I was at a CBU graduation on Wednesday and when I was 433 00:23:55,729 --> 00:24:00,289 at the graduation I was sitting next to a guy that I know is Chinese, Richard Yu, 434 00:24:00,289 --> 00:24:05,230 I've known him a long time, and I asked him, and I've asked many cultures this 435 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:10,880 over the years, and races, I said, hey, um, what's the best way you would want to. 436 00:24:11,324 --> 00:24:17,544 Have someone ask you, what, what is your country of origin, or what is your native 437 00:24:17,834 --> 00:24:22,024 tongue, or what is your nationality, you know, because you can ask that in the 438 00:24:22,044 --> 00:24:24,735 United States and people say, America, you know, I'm American, and you get a 439 00:24:24,735 --> 00:24:29,205 little offended, you know, even though they look like they're from Africa, or 440 00:24:29,205 --> 00:24:32,334 they sound like they're from Africa, or they sound like they're from Germany, 441 00:24:32,334 --> 00:24:33,594 or they sound, you know, whatever. 442 00:24:33,985 --> 00:24:39,480 Um, So I asked him, what's the best way to, and my point is, simple things 443 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:43,730 like that, where once you've built a little bit of relationship, learn 444 00:24:43,730 --> 00:24:49,170 how to build that bridge even better by asking those questions and being 445 00:24:49,170 --> 00:24:52,750 sensitive to the fact that, you know, there are things that are off putting. 446 00:24:52,989 --> 00:24:57,760 And I know I still need to learn how to connect even better with people. 447 00:24:58,380 --> 00:25:02,690 And then once you, once you can get those people all together in a room, then 448 00:25:02,690 --> 00:25:04,990 it's trying to find that common goal. 449 00:25:05,514 --> 00:25:07,205 Uh, for, like here at St. 450 00:25:07,205 --> 00:25:11,425 Stephen's, for ministry or in servant's arms, uh, to meet needs in 451 00:25:11,425 --> 00:25:17,074 the community, you know, which, or in SBC, you know, to meet needs globally. 452 00:25:17,635 --> 00:25:19,375 uh, as a global institution. 453 00:25:19,655 --> 00:25:21,735 So, yeah, I 454 00:25:21,735 --> 00:25:25,325 Dr William T. Choctaw: know when I used to have talks about, uh, multicultural 455 00:25:25,325 --> 00:25:29,724 relationships in healthcare, um, I used to always use the phrase that 456 00:25:29,745 --> 00:25:31,635 respect transcends all cultures. 457 00:25:32,115 --> 00:25:33,954 You don't have to be an expert. 458 00:25:34,155 --> 00:25:37,534 Uh, you know, I'm certainly not an expert, but, but be respectful. 459 00:25:37,535 --> 00:25:41,695 And I would use as a clear example, you know, when you walk into the room, you 460 00:25:41,695 --> 00:25:47,254 know, introduce yourself, shake somebody's hand, shake everybody's hand in the room. 461 00:25:47,870 --> 00:25:50,830 And you would be amazed that as a physician, if you do that, even 462 00:25:50,830 --> 00:25:55,860 including the children, how immediately they say, Oh, this, this doctor is 463 00:25:55,860 --> 00:25:59,210 a little different because nobody's ever shaken my wife's hand or my 464 00:25:59,210 --> 00:26:03,219 husband's hand or whatever, but just basic stuff that our parents taught 465 00:26:03,220 --> 00:26:06,000 us, you know, let's just be respectful. 466 00:26:07,095 --> 00:26:12,225 And, uh, and if you start there, uh, and then just sort of build on that, uh, 467 00:26:12,285 --> 00:26:16,524 but, but I think it's, it's a challenge is, and I think certainly society is 468 00:26:16,524 --> 00:26:20,135 making it more and more challenging, but I think it's important to have 469 00:26:20,135 --> 00:26:24,785 leaders like yourself, uh, to get who demonstrate that and who implement 470 00:26:24,795 --> 00:26:28,855 that, uh, to keep it balanced and keep us moving in the right direction. 471 00:26:29,145 --> 00:26:30,195 Our diversity is. 472 00:26:31,375 --> 00:26:38,014 uh, I think is Christlike, uh, from, uh, all the other people that he dealt with 473 00:26:38,024 --> 00:26:43,345 that were not maybe necessary from his city or his country, uh, but, but, uh, 474 00:26:43,375 --> 00:26:45,504 but you just treat people with respect. 475 00:26:46,074 --> 00:26:46,864 Uh, so. 476 00:26:47,515 --> 00:26:48,525 Let me ask you this. 477 00:26:48,525 --> 00:26:53,925 Um, what, what are some of the, if, if you had to give a, if you had 478 00:26:53,925 --> 00:26:56,695 to give a masterclass, uh, to, uh, 479 00:26:57,535 --> 00:26:59,964 Dr. Anthony L. Dockery: to, I can't do that, I can't do that. 480 00:27:00,045 --> 00:27:00,235 Dr. 481 00:27:00,385 --> 00:27:01,394 Choctaw, he did the masterclass. 482 00:27:02,494 --> 00:27:03,424 Dr William T. Choctaw: No, no, no, no, no. 483 00:27:03,424 --> 00:27:12,465 I say to, um, 30, 20 year olds, um, and men and women, Uh, who were about to go 484 00:27:12,465 --> 00:27:16,705 out and, and do different parts of the country, different parts of the world. 485 00:27:16,895 --> 00:27:20,604 What, what would be some of the things that you would share with them, uh, in 486 00:27:20,614 --> 00:27:22,764 terms of how they can be effective and, 487 00:27:23,024 --> 00:27:24,684 Dr. Anthony L. Dockery: and make the world a better place? 488 00:27:24,824 --> 00:27:29,974 Yeah, I mean, the, the main thing is we already said it earlier and, um, and 489 00:27:29,974 --> 00:27:31,294 that's like you talked about with Dr. 490 00:27:31,374 --> 00:27:33,774 McCall, be teachable, right? 491 00:27:33,775 --> 00:27:37,840 That's, that's, it's so important to Not feel like you know it all. 492 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,600 You know, you come out of high school and you think, man, I got 493 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:41,889 my diploma, I know everything. 494 00:27:42,420 --> 00:27:42,710 Right? 495 00:27:42,750 --> 00:27:46,890 You come out of the four year degree, and you got that diploma, I know everything. 496 00:27:47,549 --> 00:27:50,859 You graduate in the military or whatever the case, I know everything. 497 00:27:51,039 --> 00:27:54,599 You know, we get to these stages and we just, I know it all, I know it all. 498 00:27:55,189 --> 00:27:59,560 Teachability is so important, um, that you don't know it all. 499 00:28:00,145 --> 00:28:04,845 And then the next piece, which is exactly what you said, is, uh, to have 500 00:28:04,875 --> 00:28:07,905 that respect for whoever is before you. 501 00:28:08,475 --> 00:28:10,825 Uh, even though they don't respect you. 502 00:28:11,284 --> 00:28:11,614 Right. 503 00:28:11,965 --> 00:28:12,935 Respect them. 504 00:28:13,305 --> 00:28:16,594 There's a battle right now between generations of who's gonna give 505 00:28:16,594 --> 00:28:19,875 the respect, and who demands respect, and who isn't respected. 506 00:28:20,225 --> 00:28:23,865 And I'm like, if you just give it, eventually it'll work out. 507 00:28:24,795 --> 00:28:27,835 Just give the respect, and don't worry about if you get 508 00:28:27,835 --> 00:28:29,655 it back, uh, for young people. 509 00:28:30,129 --> 00:28:32,330 And then preparation, right? 510 00:28:32,330 --> 00:28:37,389 If you're going to go and do something, whatever that is, then prepare. 511 00:28:37,629 --> 00:28:40,869 And then once you prepare, like you said, again, I can't, you're, 512 00:28:40,869 --> 00:28:42,370 you're giving the perfect examples. 513 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:46,560 Don't go for the C plus and don't go for the B minus, right? 514 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,270 Go for the A plus, go for the 100, right? 515 00:28:50,620 --> 00:28:53,560 Always try to put your very best. 516 00:28:54,135 --> 00:28:55,515 effort out there. 517 00:28:55,845 --> 00:28:59,305 And this is regardless if it's something you're passionate about or not. 518 00:28:59,615 --> 00:29:02,574 Every opportunity is an interview. 519 00:29:03,205 --> 00:29:06,385 So always dress for success. 520 00:29:06,524 --> 00:29:07,245 Yes. 521 00:29:07,395 --> 00:29:07,835 Always. 522 00:29:07,905 --> 00:29:10,264 Because you never know who's watching. 523 00:29:10,745 --> 00:29:13,425 And so I'm not just talking about external dress. 524 00:29:13,684 --> 00:29:13,964 Yes. 525 00:29:14,285 --> 00:29:16,794 It's how you present every part of you. 526 00:29:17,075 --> 00:29:18,705 Knowing there's people. 527 00:29:18,764 --> 00:29:22,145 It's because a lot of times it's You're not even speaking or 528 00:29:22,145 --> 00:29:24,905 doing something for the people you see and the people you know. 529 00:29:25,625 --> 00:29:28,705 A lot of times you're doing things for the people you don't see and the people 530 00:29:28,764 --> 00:29:33,535 you don't know, that if you do it right, eventually you will know and you will 531 00:29:33,535 --> 00:29:36,804 be connected with to push whatever you're trying to bring even further. 532 00:29:37,245 --> 00:29:38,054 But remembering that. 533 00:29:38,504 --> 00:29:42,064 And, you know, as young people, you know, we're typically just too short sighted. 534 00:29:42,064 --> 00:29:46,274 So, that's what I mainly try to convey to them is, uh, to own it. 535 00:29:46,524 --> 00:29:46,875 Excellent. 536 00:29:47,750 --> 00:29:50,340 Dr William T. Choctaw: So, is there anything else that you 537 00:29:50,340 --> 00:29:51,800 would want to leave with us? 538 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:55,340 You know, we want to be respectful of your time and we're very grateful that you've 539 00:29:55,810 --> 00:30:01,410 been gracious enough to, to, to share some of your words of wisdom, uh, with us. 540 00:30:01,460 --> 00:30:06,109 Um, I, I am very optimistic about life in the world. 541 00:30:06,139 --> 00:30:09,090 I think, uh, there are a lot of good people like yourself and 542 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:10,780 others who are out there every day. 543 00:30:11,295 --> 00:30:12,345 fighting the battles. 544 00:30:12,375 --> 00:30:17,235 And I think that that's what will, will, will make, um, um, uh, the good 545 00:30:17,865 --> 00:30:20,104 win out in, in the final analysis. 546 00:30:20,405 --> 00:30:23,634 But any, any, anything you want to leave us with before we, 547 00:30:23,634 --> 00:30:24,635 Dr. Anthony L. Dockery: we let you go? 548 00:30:24,804 --> 00:30:25,384 Yes, sir. 549 00:30:25,384 --> 00:30:26,805 I'll leave you with two things. 550 00:30:26,884 --> 00:30:29,194 And again, I appreciate you inviting me. 551 00:30:29,194 --> 00:30:30,315 It's been an honor. 552 00:30:30,885 --> 00:30:36,144 Excellent questions that are insightful, thought provoking, which is always good. 553 00:30:36,145 --> 00:30:39,625 So grateful for you, sir, and what you have done and what you have accomplished. 554 00:30:39,965 --> 00:30:45,215 On so many levels, uh, reaching the pinnacle of the medical profession, being 555 00:30:45,215 --> 00:30:52,254 a surgeon, being a full on lawyer as well, a politician, I mean, you've done it all. 556 00:30:52,345 --> 00:30:56,754 And to come from where you have come, I'm sure you put your testimony out there, uh, 557 00:30:56,805 --> 00:31:01,905 it truly has been a beacon light for all of us, and so I'm grateful to you as well. 558 00:31:02,465 --> 00:31:10,315 Um, but the two things I would close with is one, is life in general, spiritual, 559 00:31:10,455 --> 00:31:15,095 physical, mental, doesn't matter, it's about discipline and balance. 560 00:31:15,335 --> 00:31:19,314 So you have to have discipline to just sit here on this Zoom call, and the people 561 00:31:19,315 --> 00:31:23,144 that are listening have to have discipline just to sit there and take it all in. 562 00:31:23,505 --> 00:31:26,875 But then, you gotta have balance with whatever your disciplines are. 563 00:31:27,460 --> 00:31:27,790 Right? 564 00:31:28,010 --> 00:31:32,040 You want to be teachable, but at the same time, you don't want to, 565 00:31:32,370 --> 00:31:36,090 you know, feel like I sit in the classroom for the rest of my life 566 00:31:36,090 --> 00:31:38,240 and be a professional student, right? 567 00:31:38,309 --> 00:31:40,770 You want to be confident, but you don't want to be arrogant. 568 00:31:41,670 --> 00:31:45,569 So there's, life isn't just about the disciplines, it's also about 569 00:31:45,580 --> 00:31:47,860 balancing the parts in between. 570 00:31:48,260 --> 00:31:51,090 And then it's about balancing our blessings, which is 571 00:31:51,090 --> 00:31:52,390 time, talent, and treasure. 572 00:31:52,900 --> 00:31:54,670 That I can't spend all my money. 573 00:31:55,250 --> 00:31:56,790 But I can't not spend any money. 574 00:31:57,110 --> 00:32:01,610 I can't burn the candle that both ends with my life, but I gotta burn the candle. 575 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:02,610 Right. 576 00:32:03,180 --> 00:32:07,849 And so, it's having balance with my disciplines, and understanding if I 577 00:32:07,850 --> 00:32:12,379 have discipline in one area of my life, and that could be eating, then I can 578 00:32:12,379 --> 00:32:16,710 also have discipline in what I say, and when I say it, and how I say it. 579 00:32:16,710 --> 00:32:20,380 Because once I know I have the discipline muscle, all I have to do is spread 580 00:32:20,380 --> 00:32:22,030 it through the totality of my life. 581 00:32:22,220 --> 00:32:24,400 And then balance those. 582 00:32:24,785 --> 00:32:29,705 Uh, with God's help, so discipline and balance, and then the last thing 583 00:32:29,705 --> 00:32:34,164 is what Christ said so clearly, I didn't come to this world, uh, to 584 00:32:34,175 --> 00:32:36,294 be served, but I came to serve. 585 00:32:36,935 --> 00:32:38,385 And that's why St. 586 00:32:38,385 --> 00:32:43,105 Stephen, our mission and our vision, all is tied up in be 587 00:32:43,115 --> 00:32:45,435 God's servant, in God's service. 588 00:32:46,050 --> 00:32:46,940 serving God's people. 589 00:32:47,390 --> 00:32:50,720 And so the common denominator in there is serve. 590 00:32:50,950 --> 00:32:54,490 And do your very best to serve God. 591 00:32:54,919 --> 00:32:57,270 Do your very best if you're in a local church or local community, 592 00:32:57,270 --> 00:33:01,560 serve the church and do your very best to serve your community. 593 00:33:02,029 --> 00:33:06,009 And of course, serve your family. 594 00:33:06,009 --> 00:33:08,860 That's what I closed out with, share with people, be your best 595 00:33:08,870 --> 00:33:10,560 self, put forth your best effort. 596 00:33:11,765 --> 00:33:14,535 God has given you gifts, talents, and abilities. 597 00:33:14,745 --> 00:33:19,345 Make sure that you wring it out for everything it is and 598 00:33:19,355 --> 00:33:21,275 give the very best you can. 599 00:33:21,415 --> 00:33:23,845 Don't sham and don't half step. 600 00:33:24,434 --> 00:33:25,035 There's too much going 601 00:33:25,314 --> 00:33:25,414 Dr William T. Choctaw: on. 602 00:33:25,655 --> 00:33:26,345 Exactly. 603 00:33:26,825 --> 00:33:28,765 Thank you very much Pastor Dockery. 604 00:33:28,794 --> 00:33:32,735 May God continue to bless and keep you, um, and keep you 605 00:33:32,815 --> 00:33:34,705 with us for a very long time. 606 00:33:35,650 --> 00:33:36,880 Dr. Anthony L. Dockery: Well, thank you as well. 607 00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:37,300 Thank you. 608 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:37,880 All right. 609 00:33:38,090 --> 00:33:38,960 And Brother Hatch. 610 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:40,090 sir. 611 00:33:40,090 --> 00:33:41,219 So, 612 00:33:41,219 --> 00:33:45,790 Dr William T. Choctaw: to all of you listening, have a wonderful day. 613 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:46,770 God bless. 614 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,140 Okay, Jesse, that's a wrap. 615 00:33:49,469 --> 00:33:50,270 That's a wrap. 616 00:33:50,370 --> 00:33:50,980 We're out. 617 00:33:52,510 --> 00:33:52,740 Thank you. 618 00:33:54,690 --> 00:33:55,030 Thank you. 619 00:33:55,030 --> 00:33:55,390 Thank you. 620 00:33:55,390 --> 00:33:55,920 Thank you. 621 00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:58,680 That was very good. 622 00:33:58,720 --> 00:33:59,540 I enjoyed that. 623 00:33:59,700 --> 00:34:02,140 I'm part of God's sister doctorate. 624 00:34:04,190 --> 00:34:04,450 Dr. Anthony L. Dockery: Yeah. 625 00:34:04,690 --> 00:34:06,970 Her skating prowess. 626 00:34:07,490 --> 00:34:07,880 That's 627 00:34:08,230 --> 00:34:08,440 Dr William T. Choctaw: right. 628 00:34:10,420 --> 00:34:15,660 One of the reasons I'll let you go When we started this, it sort of dawned on me 629 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,600 that in effect This is sort of a legacy. 630 00:34:19,910 --> 00:34:21,360 That's really what this is. 631 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:23,610 I mean, you can write a book, you can write an autobiography, 632 00:34:23,610 --> 00:34:25,080 you can do all that, that's fine. 633 00:34:25,679 --> 00:34:29,429 But you can also do a podcast, and podcasts in 634 00:34:29,429 --> 00:34:30,140 cyberspace, and that's forever. 635 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:30,750 Dr. Anthony L. Dockery: That's forever. 636 00:34:30,759 --> 00:34:31,489 Evergreen. 637 00:34:34,235 --> 00:34:36,925 Dr William T. Choctaw: I think just having it out there, you know, for 638 00:34:36,925 --> 00:34:39,925 people to listen to whenever they want it, for you to listen to over 639 00:34:39,925 --> 00:34:45,255 and over again, whatever you want, I think is a blessing for all of us. 640 00:34:45,535 --> 00:34:50,395 So thank you, thank you, thank you so much for being willing to take 641 00:34:50,444 --> 00:34:53,965 time out of your business schedule and to speak to our audience. 642 00:34:53,965 --> 00:34:58,065 And I think we're all blessed, just from hearing your story. 643 00:34:58,325 --> 00:35:00,254 Because we all learn things that we don't know. 644 00:35:00,430 --> 00:35:00,600 100 645 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:01,760 Dr. Anthony L. Dockery: percent Yes, sir. 646 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:02,550 I'm grateful. 647 00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:06,020 I'm grateful that you're putting yourself out there to share all that 648 00:35:06,020 --> 00:35:07,920 you've learned over the years as well. 649 00:35:08,500 --> 00:35:11,689 And again, like you said before, a lot of people don't hear 650 00:35:11,710 --> 00:35:13,470 things from a doctor, right? 651 00:35:13,470 --> 00:35:17,829 You get about a minute and a half in the doctor's office as they're 652 00:35:17,829 --> 00:35:19,480 splitting off to the next person. 653 00:35:19,970 --> 00:35:21,200 And that's it. 654 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:26,679 So to have you sitting on a podcast for 30 minutes or an hour or the 655 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:32,405 masterclass for an hour, two hours, And having access to an MD and the world 656 00:35:32,405 --> 00:35:34,015 experiences you've had and other things. 657 00:35:34,515 --> 00:35:36,575 It's priceless that you're willing to avail yourself. 658 00:35:36,725 --> 00:35:38,515 So you're an epitome of what I was just talking about. 659 00:35:38,775 --> 00:35:40,375 God serving in God's service, serving God's people. 660 00:35:41,195 --> 00:35:41,505 Right? 661 00:35:41,575 --> 00:35:43,194 And achieving excellence. 662 00:35:43,485 --> 00:35:44,104 All of those things. 663 00:35:44,754 --> 00:35:46,664 Pastor, you know, at the beginning 664 00:35:47,115 --> 00:35:49,224 Dr William T. Choctaw: Uh, when, and when he came up with the, the 665 00:35:49,225 --> 00:35:54,575 masterclass concept with the Reverend Collins and I overheard that, that was 666 00:35:54,575 --> 00:35:58,525 Jesse L Hammonds: my thought right there, that, hey, somebody else needs to 667 00:35:58,525 --> 00:36:03,665 Dr William T. Choctaw: hear this, you know, and unless they're at the church 668 00:36:03,684 --> 00:36:07,065 Jesse L Hammonds: and with the code to get into the zoom call and all that, or, 669 00:36:07,675 --> 00:36:12,575 uh, or come to the class, it's going to stay within the four walls and there, 670 00:36:12,665 --> 00:36:14,405 there's gotta be a way to get that out. 671 00:36:15,725 --> 00:36:16,645 And so, 672 00:36:16,865 --> 00:36:20,645 Dr William T. Choctaw: you know, that's how a lot of this came to pass as well. 673 00:36:21,125 --> 00:36:24,544 Jesse L Hammonds: And, um, and some, um, part of the questions I was 674 00:36:24,544 --> 00:36:25,605 Dr William T. Choctaw: going to ask you. 675 00:36:26,075 --> 00:36:28,185 Um, this is, you know, 676 00:36:28,285 --> 00:36:32,545 Jesse L Hammonds: you know, off, off camera, whatever, but, uh, was, uh, as 677 00:36:32,545 --> 00:36:37,764 it relates to coming out of that, uh, the pandemic, um, you know, how did 678 00:36:37,765 --> 00:36:41,314 that feel, you know, I mean, what were some of the challenges there and then 679 00:36:41,654 --> 00:36:44,485 Dr William T. Choctaw: what was some of the pleasant surprises, 680 00:36:44,704 --> 00:36:51,105 especially as related to, uh, the digital, you know, uh, landscape 681 00:36:51,575 --> 00:36:56,010 Jesse L Hammonds: and, and how, how we have had to, you know, Adapt to, 682 00:36:56,590 --> 00:36:58,240 Dr William T. Choctaw: you know, pandemic and post 683 00:36:58,240 --> 00:36:58,800 Dr. Anthony L. Dockery: pandemic. 684 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:00,640 Yeah, it was huge. 685 00:37:00,690 --> 00:37:05,209 I think the best day was when we finally had people come back in 686 00:37:05,209 --> 00:37:07,169 person and you could see people again. 687 00:37:07,660 --> 00:37:09,299 Uh, that's been huge. 688 00:37:10,159 --> 00:37:14,630 That day, I mean, I couldn't fight back the emotion of just seeing 689 00:37:14,630 --> 00:37:17,140 people back or touching people again. 690 00:37:17,610 --> 00:37:21,570 Um, yeah, you just don't know what was missing until it was really missing. 691 00:37:21,810 --> 00:37:28,215 Um, the Some of the unforeseen is, like you said, it's, it's now this 692 00:37:28,475 --> 00:37:31,265 electronic reach and touch that we have. 693 00:37:31,375 --> 00:37:35,494 It's, I was at a hospital, um, out in Indio. 694 00:37:35,495 --> 00:37:39,414 One of our members happened to get sick out there, so they were still out there. 695 00:37:39,415 --> 00:37:41,384 So I drove out there, see the member. 696 00:37:41,915 --> 00:37:44,355 I walked out, was finished with our, our member. 697 00:37:44,865 --> 00:37:47,905 And I was walking by another, uh, room. 698 00:37:48,575 --> 00:37:51,925 And there was a family, a couple people standing by the door, and 699 00:37:51,925 --> 00:37:53,295 some other people in the room. 700 00:37:53,765 --> 00:37:56,355 And as I was walking by, they were like, Dockery! 701 00:37:56,355 --> 00:37:58,634 You know, turn around, again, I'm in India. 702 00:37:59,224 --> 00:38:01,064 So I turn around, and I'm like, Hey, hi. 703 00:38:01,615 --> 00:38:04,055 And they're like, Pastor Dockery! 704 00:38:04,705 --> 00:38:06,045 Yeah, that's me, that's me. 705 00:38:06,584 --> 00:38:09,105 And they literally said, You don't know us. 706 00:38:09,185 --> 00:38:16,255 But we're virtually at church every single Sunday, like, Oh, great. 707 00:38:16,525 --> 00:38:20,435 And you know, our family members here sick, you know, you might pray and I'm 708 00:38:20,465 --> 00:38:21,655 like, yeah, we're going to pray for them. 709 00:38:22,165 --> 00:38:25,424 But the point being, have we not had the pandemic that 710 00:38:25,435 --> 00:38:26,304 probably wouldn't have happened. 711 00:38:26,624 --> 00:38:28,325 And these people are connected. 712 00:38:28,825 --> 00:38:30,655 And said, you're our pastor. 713 00:38:30,705 --> 00:38:32,225 We come every Sunday. 714 00:38:32,335 --> 00:38:33,435 This is our church. 715 00:38:33,625 --> 00:38:34,365 I would have never known. 716 00:38:34,805 --> 00:38:35,105 Right. 717 00:38:35,105 --> 00:38:37,145 And we probably wouldn't even have this reach. 718 00:38:37,445 --> 00:38:38,505 And that goes on and on. 719 00:38:38,515 --> 00:38:40,865 We look at the metrics of people. 720 00:38:41,195 --> 00:38:44,724 There are people, we have a huge contingent in Russia. 721 00:38:45,034 --> 00:38:45,584 Huge. 722 00:38:46,034 --> 00:38:46,345 Like huge. 723 00:38:46,925 --> 00:38:47,165 Right. 724 00:38:47,165 --> 00:38:48,195 So where did that come from? 725 00:38:48,685 --> 00:38:49,375 No idea. 726 00:38:49,845 --> 00:38:54,105 Right, but there's a huge contingent of people every single Sunday 727 00:38:54,105 --> 00:38:56,095 that are watching from Russia. 728 00:38:56,355 --> 00:38:59,385 Uh, and then all over the place, and all over, there's a whole lot of 729 00:38:59,385 --> 00:39:00,435 them in Russia for whatever reason. 730 00:39:01,025 --> 00:39:01,355 Right. 731 00:39:01,785 --> 00:39:02,035 Yeah. 732 00:39:04,305 --> 00:39:07,875 You know, it was a tough time, obviously, a lot of loss, a lot of difficulty, 733 00:39:07,875 --> 00:39:09,555 and church still isn't the same. 734 00:39:09,555 --> 00:39:11,345 I mean, but I don't expect it to be the same. 735 00:39:11,345 --> 00:39:15,534 There's always things that force corrections and movement, and this has 736 00:39:15,534 --> 00:39:16,745 been our correction and our movement. 737 00:39:17,215 --> 00:39:19,114 So we just gotta work with it. 738 00:39:19,115 --> 00:39:19,644 Part of the, 739 00:39:19,645 --> 00:39:21,205 Dr William T. Choctaw: one of the things that has really helped St. 740 00:39:21,205 --> 00:39:28,620 Stephen's is you and church leadership had The idea pre pandemic about Zoom 741 00:39:28,620 --> 00:39:31,290 and that sort of thing, you know, it didn't start with the pandemic. 742 00:39:31,530 --> 00:39:35,330 So you were just able to build on that, whereas a lot of other organizations had 743 00:39:35,330 --> 00:39:39,890 to start from scratch when they wanted to, because they had nothing in place. 744 00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:43,770 At least you had some infrastructure that you can expand and grow on. 745 00:39:43,770 --> 00:39:49,030 But I think that's another way that God has blessed us and, and, and, and 746 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:51,990 grateful also for, for your leadership. 747 00:39:53,750 --> 00:39:58,130 I don't want to keep you too long and you have a great rest of your 748 00:39:58,130 --> 00:40:00,590 Dr. Anthony L. Dockery: Saturday guys do the same I'll pray for you guys. 749 00:40:00,590 --> 00:40:01,729 I'm grateful for what you're doing. 750 00:40:01,730 --> 00:40:06,269 Let me pray for y'all for this podcast Lord continues to use Thank you father. 751 00:40:06,269 --> 00:40:07,680 Thank you for your grace and mercy. 752 00:40:07,689 --> 00:40:11,949 Thank you for being in the midst of this time grateful for dr Choctaw and 753 00:40:11,950 --> 00:40:16,210 Lord the heart that you gave him to do this and to serve in his capacity 754 00:40:16,655 --> 00:40:21,415 What we know is countless, and in some ways even immeasurable, the impact that 755 00:40:21,995 --> 00:40:25,304 he's having and that they're making in having this podcast and doing the 756 00:40:25,765 --> 00:40:29,364 masterclass, and I praise you Conceited, use it for your glory, for your honor. 757 00:40:29,865 --> 00:40:32,844 Thank you to Brother Hammonds as well and his technical prowess and 758 00:40:32,914 --> 00:40:37,595 ability and willingness to serve and to be there to get this word out. 759 00:40:37,985 --> 00:40:40,405 Uh, where we know the topics and the things that they're 760 00:40:40,405 --> 00:40:42,435 covering, uh, it is so important. 761 00:40:42,435 --> 00:40:46,225 Even dealing with holiday stresses and family and issues, we're putting 762 00:40:46,225 --> 00:40:49,415 words out like that in a timely fashion, right, when people are 763 00:40:49,475 --> 00:40:51,654 dealing with it, is truly a blessing. 764 00:40:51,894 --> 00:40:53,345 So continue to use both of them. 765 00:40:53,620 --> 00:40:56,570 Bless their households and give them good health and 766 00:40:56,590 --> 00:40:58,200 strength in Jesus Christ's name. 767 00:40:58,200 --> 00:40:58,960 We love you, Lord. 768 00:40:59,220 --> 00:40:59,680 Amen. 769 00:41:00,230 --> 00:41:00,660 Amen. 770 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:00,970 Thank you 771 00:41:00,970 --> 00:41:02,920 Jesse L Hammonds: for listening to this episode of the Healthy, 772 00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:05,320 Wealthy, and Wise podcast with Dr. 773 00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:05,790 William T. 774 00:41:05,790 --> 00:41:08,529 Choctaw, MD, JD. 775 00:41:08,530 --> 00:41:12,060 Be sure to check out other great episodes covering areas of health, 776 00:41:12,259 --> 00:41:16,620 wealth, and wisdom at thwwp. 777 00:41:16,620 --> 00:41:17,110 com. 778 00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:21,010 And while you're there, be sure to check out the books, blogs, and other 779 00:41:21,010 --> 00:41:23,160 literature in your preferred format. 780 00:41:23,550 --> 00:41:28,730 And don't forget to leave a review, subscribe, share, and support the podcast. 781 00:41:29,020 --> 00:41:31,820 That's at THWWP. 782 00:41:31,850 --> 00:41:32,500 com. 783 00:41:32,830 --> 00:41:36,679 You've been listening to the healthy, wealthy, and wise podcast with Dr. 784 00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:37,210 William T. 785 00:41:37,240 --> 00:41:39,980 Choctaw, MD, 786 00:41:39,980 --> 00:41:41,120 Dr William T. Choctaw: JD.