From Stripes to Suits: A Leader’s Flight Plan for Success in Life’s Missions

0:01 Jesse L Hammonds: Welcome to the Healthy, Wealthy and Wise podcast with Dr. William T. Choctaw, MD, JD, where the doctor helps you unlock your full potential by equipping you with tools and knowledge in the areas of health, wealth, and wisdom, anchored in his experience as a business executive, a physician surveyor for the joint commission, a former mayor, and over 50 years of experience as a general surgeon. You've got questions, he's got answers. So let's get started. Here's Dr. William T. Choctaw, MD, Dr. William T. Choctaw: JD. Why did, why did you and your wife decide to go? Were, were there any other reasons or was that the only factor?

0:41 Well, we Jesse L Hammonds: just had a heart for it. Okay. I know that, you know, at least in my particular case, although I didn't have to go through anything like that I think God every day, you know for my parents, you know, I was adopted I was adopted as an infant. Okay. Pretty much around the same age as. At least the process started around the same age as the one that we got five days after they were born. My, my trajectory in life could have been totally different. I could have been another statistic. On one end on the negative end, but, Dr. William T. Choctaw: Your experience was a positive one as a child with Jesse L Hammonds: adopted parents.

1:21 Oh, I, I didn't know that there was any difference. Dr. William T. Choctaw: Which is the ideal. Jesse L Hammonds: Yeah, I, I didn't, I didn't know anything about any of that, you know I can remember there's, there was some person called a case worker at the time. Right. It didn't, it didn't dawn on me what that was all about. It was just a a white woman that would come and talk with me and ask if everything Dr. William T. Choctaw: was Jesse L Hammonds: okay and things of that nature and I was always determined to show her that I could read and I could write and I could, you know, set the other. I didn't think.

2:01 You know, anything about it and and that's how Ezell and George Hammond's were they were, they, they just, you know treated me like I was blood, you know, and it was just better than some people who are blood treat their kids. Sure. Dr. William T. Choctaw: Were you an only Jesse L Hammonds: child? No actually not. I have, well, they had a biological daughter Rosalie, we call her Bootsie. She's still alive although she Was she older or younger than you? She's older, she's older. Okay. She is, she's 80 and and she's dealing with diabetes and oh, and she's on dialysis now, it's a matter of So it was just the two of you?

2:45 No, it was myself. You know, she was, you know, out of the home and growing up. Got it. But she would always come over. But I had a sibling Anthony. He's younger. And and Myron another sibling. He's, he was about four or five months older than I was, he, he eventually was reunited with his mother. Okay. Anthony and myself, we were adopted Anthony is the opposite of me. Okay. Sure. Well, whatever, you know, whatever genetics he, he has, he, he's old, he's the opposite of me. In, in what way?

3:26 Well well, let's let me frame it this way when I joined the Air Force, which was, you know, a first for anyone, you know, in, in the family to go that way. And, and there was a lot of reasons why I even went that way. I'll share that a little bit later. I, you know, I had to get security clearances and so the government came out and they were interviewing people in the community and my family and and my, you know, Anthony he had, he had issues. And so you know, I got the clearance and everything. But I couldn't really associate with him because of the people that he associated with, right.

4:10 And so you know, he, that was him, you know, he, he, he chose a different, you know, lifestyle. Okay. And so you know, there was always something. Up always something going on and it's a negative negative. Yes. So Dr. William T. Choctaw: what did you learn from all that? I mean, just, just, just that phase of Jesse L Hammonds: your life. Hopefully you'll come Dr. William T. Choctaw: back pretty soon. There we go. There you are. Jesse L Hammonds: But what did you Dr. William T. Choctaw: learn from all that? What, what, what was your takeaway? Jesse L Hammonds: Well, just focus on what I need to do because he's going to do whatever he's going to do.

4:52 And they, my parents didn't want to really show a whole lot of partiality. Between us two. So whenever he got involved with something, you know, it was kind of looked at. It could have been either one of you that did that. It probably could have been, but it really was in most cases there. And so I, I was determined to just focus on what I needed to do and being the best that I can be. You know, and whatever that was. And, and I was quite, I had a very full, you know, childhood, very, very full. And yeah, I was brought up in the church. My father was the chairman of the deacon board and.

5:34 And and I usually ran in his circles there. And and that's how I kind of got into a number of different official and unofficial leadership type of, you know, situations there. by Running with him. But and and in one case there I was the what we call the liaison for the Sunday school. I've always been involved with the Sunnyschool in one way or the other. And my my job, and I was, I couldn't have been no more than 11 or 12 or so I was in charge of collecting all the money from all of the classrooms.

6:16 Okay. As well as making sure that all of the teachers had their, their literature. And Dr. William T. Choctaw: so that's quite a bit of responsibility for Jesse L Hammonds: an 11 year old. Oh, most definitely. And, and I really can't recall how I actually got into it. It was, I think, especially as it relates to, to leadership there. I find that it kind of starts with a question. Like what if this was that way, or that was this way, and then you take the initiative to, to do whatever that is, and someone appreciates or, or, or likes, whatever that is, and they let you continue.

6:58 And so I think I went into the Sunday school office with a sister Ferris, I still remember like it was yesterday and I just started helping her, we were talking. And I just started helping her count the money, you know, from the Sunday school. It was all on her and she seemed like she was just overwhelmed. You know, she never had, you know, time for anything or whatever, you know, and so I would has become a famous phrase. Let me help you with that. It's so interesting. Is this a small church, Dr. William T. Choctaw: a Jesse L Hammonds: large church? It was a large church. It was about, I guess, around the same size as St.

7:40 Stephen. Okay. That, that, that's pretty large. But a lot of firsts because this was back in the seventies Okay. And the church started in a, in a high school, not started, but one of the locations that we were, that I can recall, you know, actually there's a lot of parallels with the St. Stephen because it also was was a product of splitting. Okay. It split from Mount Enon in Dayton. This is all in Dayton. What city is this? Dayton, Ohio. Okay. Home of the Wright Brothers and University of Dayton Flyers. Okay. That's correct, Senator. And that's where you went into the Air Force.

8:21 Yeah, also the home of Wright Patterson Air Force Base. Right, right. Dr. William T. Choctaw: Okay, Jesse L Hammonds: makes sense. Dr. William T. Choctaw: And how was school for you? Junior high, high school, elementary, Jesse L Hammonds: whatever you remember? It was all wonderful out there. I think I was going down that path there, too. Huh. It was, it was all wonderful. I I was, you know, probably a BC student and a student, you know, in history. I know that is that that's something that I embrace that in turn events and that sort of thing in, in English and, you know, and that sort of thing. No problems there. I studied music. Right, right around 12, you know, I was what they would call a, a classic trained, a classically trained trombonist.

9:07 Well, yeah, because I could play Beethoven and, and, and, no, no, I Dr. William T. Choctaw: understand. I just want to make sure I heard you correctly. Okay. All Jesse L Hammonds: right. I was in the concert concerto band as well as the jazz lab band, as well as the marching band. This is at high school. No, actually, this was prior to high school. It carried on into high school. This was when I was, a lot of things happened when I was 12 and 13 years old. We were kind of me and a partner of mine were the first and the youngest to ever have a chair, what they call a chair. In the band of the marching band of the senior high school.

9:48 So you were in middle school at the time? Yes. We weren't even freshmen. Okay. And You know, and we, we played those horns. And we actually formed a band, this is the 70s, so and I think I alluded to it. In another interview with one of our brothers at the church he was talking about the people in Gary, Indiana, and I share with him, I'm from Dayton, Ohio, and that's the home of all kinds of bands, you know, from Zap, Roger New Human Body slave Dayton, platypus, lakeside, all of these group, you know, lakeside is famous for the fantastic voyage, those guys any who there was just a lot of music going on.

10:42 And so we formed a band ourselves. And we used to pattern ourselves like Earth, wind and Fire, you know, and, and brass construction and Mandrill. We had electric tape, you know, reflective tape on us. And we'd come in from the back with cowbells and then we'd get on stage and we'd play and we'd win these talent shows and, and that sort of thing here. And the fact of the matter is we could actually play and read music we wrote and, and, and did the music. And we did that for the, for the marching band as well under the direction of Clarence Harold Brown out of Grambling. Okay. And, and that's, that's actually how we looked, like the Grambling Band and stuff.

11:25 So this is, Dr. William T. Choctaw: okay, high school, okay. So what happened after Jesse L Hammonds: high school? After high school Well, to get through high school, I was working for I, you know, I really did idolize my, my dad, you know, not before God or anything, but right up there. Because he was a true man of God. And that was in the home at church as well as at work. And he had a good role model. Oh, yes. Yes. He worked for General Motors, a division called Delco Delco products. And so I you know, in my last couple of years of school, I went to what they call a joint vocational school and I studied mechanical drafting.

12:12 And so during the summertime I was able to get a job working for General Motors. In their engineering department and they some kind of way, they gave me the keys to the office. I was the person that would go in there. And turn on all the lights, turn on all the machines and get everything ready for the engineers when they came in and we did, you know, lots of reproduction where I was in the reproduction area there and they would give me little, little bitty products projects and everything to, to change this line or that line or whatever, you know, mechanical drafting type of thing prior to what I was studying.

13:01 You know, and you know, the machines were gigantic and the and the the drawings were gigantic as well, you know, which later became either automobiles or parts for automobiles and that sort of thing there. And so I went through that and. Fast forward to senior year General Motors were, was offering me you know, a very nice promotion and an actual position and a, and a job where they're, you know, in the, well, in the engineering department you know, as a, I guess an apprentice draftsman and so I, I thought about it because, well, here was the, the dilemma.

13:45 At the same time I had been testing and had scored, you know, high enough. To qualify for the Air Force and so the Air Force, you know, came calling at the same time. So I had these two competing things there and I think General Motors, they had a an education, you know, assistance program as well, but theirs wasn't as good as the Air Force. Okay. What was the difference? Oh, well the Air Force, they paid 80%. In General Motors, I'm really not certain, you know, I'm, I'm assuming that they have one they weren't bringing, bringing everything, the Air Force was bringing everything, they say, hey, we can do this for you, that, that, that, that, and that, and Dr. William T. Choctaw: they would pay 80 percent of your college Jesse L Hammonds: expenses.

14:31 Yes. Okay. So, and, you know, you can see the world. Okay. And and that was appealing to me. You know, Dayton was okay, but, and, and I wanted to see the world. Yeah, I had been a few places. I had been to, you know, D. C. Because in that position as a liaison for the Sunday school they sent me places sometimes. You know, I, I remember the first time I was ever homesick was going to DC and spending the night. I think we were at the Watergate Hotel from Interesting. And oh, I got homesick there, you know, but then I got used to being away from home. And so, at any rate yeah, I chose the Air Force.

15:13 And and it was, I think it was a great choice. How long were you in there for 12 years, Dr. William T. Choctaw: 12 years? What was your Jesse L Hammonds: rank when you left? I was a staff sergeant. Staff sergeant. Dr. William T. Choctaw: I never served in the military, but I was always told that the sergeants are the ones that run everything. Is that Jesse L Hammonds: true? Yeah, there are different levels of that. In the civilian side, I would probably be considered probably a second level because there was an actual, what they called a buck sergeant. Which would be more or less the first level there.

15:54 The staff sergeant could be that as well, depending on the corporate The sergeants are basically the Dr. William T. Choctaw: managers. They're Jesse L Hammonds: the ones that They're what's called non commissioned officers. Right. NCOs. Okay. Yes. And and I had a, a crew. And this was initial. You know, this was just one thing that I did. That's after I started going up in rank there. And then other opportunities presented itself. Because I began to get introduced to technology. Okay. In fact I believe, I'm pretty sure that we were pioneers, we being the military were pioneers of the email system. And I would say the hospital was right there as well, but we had to have a good way of communicating between bases, you know, logistic type of things.

16:45 And so that system was Was created for us to log into a particular system and get certain information. Okay. And that evolved into just sending that information, you know, in what they call packets and that sort of thing. And and then that led on to other, you know, developments in technology and me getting involved with total quality management. Okay. Dr. William T. Choctaw: So, for our viewers, tell them what Total Quality Management is Jesse L Hammonds: for the ones who don't know. Well, Total Quality Management is a a philosophy of, of of how you approach and And manage quality.

17:31 Instead of reinventing the wheel, in all cases there, you would take what what is working and build upon that and improve on that. In a continuous way. Made famous by, you know, a number of different quality gurus most notably Edward Deming. Dr. William T. Choctaw: In the U. Jesse L Hammonds: S., right. Yes, and in his nemesis Mr. Crosby who was the zero defect guy and we did more Deming. And so, and this was, this was a program that was embraced you know, by the military, you know, the, the, the Congress pass a lot of legislation.

18:13 And we were directed to do things more efficiently. We didn't have to worry about budgets and revenue and things of that nature, but they didn't want us to waste things time or resources or anything like that. So there was a big push for that. And at the time. I was in the right place at the right time and they offered me the opportunity to teach and, and well, first to, to learn, you know, TQM and then to teach the foundation course for it. So what, what did you Dr. William T. Choctaw: learn from all of that? You've sort of risen through the ranks. You're you know, a higher level sergeant in the military.

18:57 in the Air Force. And you're learning total quality management. I might add that one of the ways that Jess and I intersect is that I learned total quality management and Toyota production system Jesse L Hammonds: and Dr. William T. Choctaw: those types of issues on the hospital side because the hospitals wanted to get more efficient. And a lot of that had to do with Lean Six Sigma, which basically is having no mistakes and no problems. And we in the hospital, the hospital management followed, or follows, or have followed the military in that regard, particularly the Air Force because they figured out a way to keep the planes in the sky. Yes. And and so that was pretty close to what we were trying to do in hospitals to keep patients alive.

19:43 And so the two they had, there's a lot of overlap is what I'm Jesse L Hammonds: trying to say. I agree. I I, I totally agree with that. And, and, and we'll speak a little bit about a at and t's and their six Sigma, right? That Dr. William T. Choctaw: came into play there, . So, so how, how did you get to at and t? Where, where does at and t come into all this? Jesse L Hammonds: Well after. After the, the, the, the air force, it, my, my life is just, like I said, it's just very, very full. Had I, had I filled out and I will still do that, filled out that That interview for there, it, it would have been difficult to try to pick and choose because a lot, there's a lot of intersection and a lot of overlap there, but you know, after, because we were, I was me and about 40, 000 or so people were downsized out of the air force.

20:36 We you Dr. William T. Choctaw: can get downsized Jesse L Hammonds: out of the air force. Yes as a matter of fact, I believe the name of the bill was Graham Rudman that they were the ground. Yeah, and so they, that bill, I believe, dictated specifically to the military that I mean, we were already trying to be as efficient as possible. They wanted us to be even more efficient. To the point that they started closing bases in reducing the workforce. We're, I don't think we're any, well, we were. Getting ready to get into the first desert storm and all of that, but that it didn't seem to matter to them and so they just started, you know, forcing people to do things there and I and my particular what they call a FSC got called up in that and You know, so I was, you know, I've been a technician, I've been a training instructor.

21:42 I've been a teacher, and my last position was that of a structural systems designer. And I'm getting to the AT& T part of it. Structural systems designer Dr. William T. Choctaw: sounds like engineering Jesse L Hammonds: to me. It, it, it really isn't. But I guess it could be, but it really isn't because basically what it was, we would get projects. It was a very small group of us. We would get projects. In fact, the building is still out there at Norco. What used to be Norton Air Force Base in San Bernardino. Which is now, you know, Amazon and the Stater brothers distribution centers and stuff like that, that building is still there.

22:30 You know, I still see it, you know, regularly, but any who we would get projects from various organizations, mostly maintenance organizations, and this goes to what you were talking about as far as efficiency. And we, we were tasked with developing training plans for recertification and certification of Of Air Force personnel, maintenance personnel, and so we were given, you know, different assignments there, and we would develop a, a teaching outline and from that teaching outline, we would develop a, a a shot list we would do both stills and video, and we would go out, whatever the subject matter was, we would go out and film more.

23:15 You know, film clips images that would, would that would go with the teaching outline there and then we would develop a script and then we would voice the script. We would go into a studio and we would. Voice the script, the, the video and, you know, the regular still photos we developed ourselves. This was, we would go into an actual dark room. I was trained to do that, go into a dark room and actually, you know. So, so this Dr. William T. Choctaw: was military still? Jesse L Hammonds: Yeah, yeah. This is all in the, in the Air Force there, and then we would put that together in a package, and then we would then we had to validate that training program, and so we would bring in a study group this usually took, you know, anywhere from 60, sometimes 90 days, depending on the complexity, and we would test, test, test, test, test until you.

24:13 So, yeah. We got a particular pass rate based on, you know, the the, the slide tape or the video Dr. William T. Choctaw: that we produced. Okay. And from that, Jesse L Hammonds: it was packaged and then, you know, sent out to the organizations, you know, for, you know, for their training. And, so Dr. William T. Choctaw: how did all of that get to AT& T? Because you had said that you've been, you've been 25 years at AT& T. Jesse L Hammonds: That's. Yeah. And and that also that's a glimpse into the origins of the production skills, by the way. So after, you know, being honorably discharged from the from the air force I had some time on my hands and so I had did some well not did some, I did a lot of studio work as a on air personality and DJ at a radio station while stationed in Texas.

25:13 K A Z I and in fact, we were instrumental in changing the sound of that, of the Of the city of the top 40 radio stations at the shift, because Dr. William T. Choctaw: we were, we were Jesse L Hammonds: we were moving the crowd as they say, and I had a, you know, a show from, you know, started at like three to 6am in the morning. And then I got to prime time, 12 to three. And so at any rate, Dr. William T. Choctaw: I did that without really Jesse L Hammonds: any. Training not, not formal training. Huh. And so, after I got out of the Air Force, I said, you know, I I want to try going to broadcasting school.

25:56 You know, kind of the, and so that's what I did. And, Dr. William T. Choctaw: It was a school. You went to Jesse L Hammonds: broadcasting school? Yes. Okay. On Huntington Beach. And after well, after I graduated, that, you know, that's another story there. But. While in fact, after I graduated They hired me on as a guidance counselor, and so so I stayed at the school, and counseled students, and there was this one gentleman that seemed to always have, was challenged with getting to class on time and he came to class at night, and so, you know, I brought him into the office and asked him, you know, so you know, How are you doing?

26:38 And, you know, how's everything in your, your, your life and family? Is there any other blah, blah, blah, and and I've noticed that, you know, you're always walking in the, you know, the door a little bit late there, you know, what's going on with you? He says, well it's kind of hard for me to get off from my feet. you know, from my job. I said, Oh, okay. What type of job it is. And he explained what it was. And I said, well, where do you work? He said, well I work for Pacific Bell. And I said, Oh, Pacific Bell. I said, all right. All right. Well, and so I gave him some, you know, some options and, you know, to try to help him, him out. And, you know, I let the instructors know, you know, what was going on and, you know, everything, you know, was fine after that, but they kind of stuck in my head that, okay, you know, this job is rewarding.

27:30 You know, but it's not necessarily making the ends meet it stuck in my head that he worked for, you know, a very large company with a chain of command, a little bit of a bureaucracy and that sort of thing. I said, that's similar to the military. And, and I knew that I had had some skills, education and. And a desire to do more than what I was doing, which was rewarding. But again, I felt like I could do more. And so I looked them up, seen where their employment office was. And before they opened up, I Dr. William T. Choctaw: was already Jesse L Hammonds: at the door.

28:14 I'm that guy, you know I'm usually Dr. William T. Choctaw: early Jesse L Hammonds: to play. That's when I'm most comfortable and feeling most confident. And so they hired me on As an operator. Now, I, I, I think that they had some sort of veterans program as well. Okay. I'm, and I may have benefited from that, but I, I, I, I'm not certain. Dr. William T. Choctaw: But did you feel that your time in the military helped you educationally in terms of opening doors to? Oh, most Jesse L Hammonds: career opportunities and that's most definitely most definitely however, you get it. Preparation is, is proper. You know, you have to get some sort of preparation formally, formally.

28:59 And in fact as it relates to, you know, TQM, everything is, is continuous, you know, you know, as far as learning and everything goes, you don't ever stop learning. At least I don't. But just to wrap up that the transition from the military to. thEn Pacific Bell was, was as a result of that student and he, you know, he preached my, my, my entrance, my interest and and even at that time, Pacific Bell was known as a technology type of company, although the quote unquote phone company and I knew that or felt that, You get in there, something that, excuse me, many people, including Reverend Collins and others have said, you just Dr. William T. Choctaw: get your foot in the door.

29:49 And then you know, you can make a difference. I always Jesse L Hammonds: felt that I can do things. Even before I knew how to do things, I would just, Dr. William T. Choctaw: I would just do it. I would just, like I said, Jesse L Hammonds: start with that question of what if this or that was this way or that way? And then I took the initiative to try to, you know, make that Dr. William T. Choctaw: a reality. And you're willing to take a risk. Jesse L Hammonds: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, sometimes calculated many times, just a stepping out on faith, not necessarily leap of faith. Because that's perhaps foolhardy but actually, you know, being prepared in some way in other ways, just having, you know you know, pure desire, you know, to do something.

30:38 Dr. William T. Choctaw: Well, oftentimes that's the quality of leadership that you have to. That everybody wants to do it, and many may want to do it, but many times only the leaders will try. Because there's always the risk of failure, there's always the risk of looking bad or whatever, whatever that fear is that one may individually have. But it sounds like that throughout your life you've taken a lot of those risks, or at least asked the question. I have, I have. What if this and what if that Jesse L Hammonds: type thing. And then on the flip side of that, I believe that. Other people ask that same question and then they have this part two of that question, who could we get to do that?

31:19 And depending on how you've positioned yourself either intentionally or unintentionally in the circles that you run in or people that you associate with you know, you become known your, your, your, your product character and all of that precedes you. Right. When something comes up available, you know, you're one of the first people that they think of, at least in my mind, I'm thinking that's how it goes. Dr. William T. Choctaw: No, that makes sense. That's called networking. Jesse L Hammonds: Yeah. Because when I, when when AT& T eventually purchased, well, we went through SBC and then, Dr. William T. Choctaw: you know. Yeah, when they broke up the, the big telecommunications systems.

32:04 Jesse L Hammonds: And started bringing the bills back together again, under AT& T again. Right. And and I was. Promoted into management there. I managed, you know, in a number of different capacities and looking back on some of that, you know, I know I had, you know, you know, some education and some qualifications and that sort of thing there, but some of the positions I'm like, I don't know how it, how it got in there, you know, but I had a number of mentors as well that that saw some things in me, apparently. Because they were the ones that were tapping me on the shoulder saying, Hey, I think you would be good in this position here.

32:45 And and I'm like, okay. Dr. William T. Choctaw: And that's another requisite that you need regardless of who you are or what area. You need help. We all need help. I clearly had a lot of people who helped me that I didn't know why or whatever. And I think it's good to recognize that, that, that. However good you are or good you think you are, whatever you, we all need help. Jesse L Hammonds: Yes. And that Dr. William T. Choctaw: that's what gets us to that next level or they write that good letter or they give that good word of recommendation, et cetera, et cetera, that that we're connected in multiple ways. Well, what would you say would be the, the top two or three things that you've learned, you know, today going through all of that through the, you know, your upbringing at home and you know, high school, the things that you did through the military.

33:37 What, what, what, what are the top two or three things that stick out that that, that you've learned that sort of guides you now Jesse L Hammonds: to date? Top two or three things would be just to, you know, never, never, never give up, you know, to stay safe. Stay, stay focused. You know that you have God on your side. I was all, I was raised that Dr. William T. Choctaw: way. You know that Jesse L Hammonds: when things get tough, you just start praying, you know, you continue praying, you know, you, you try to always as the saying goes, if you stay ready, you don't have to get ready. If you stay Dr. William T. Choctaw: prayed up, then you're always in that frame of mind.

34:19 Right. Jesse L Hammonds: With, you know, the, the teaching of the Bible to Dr. William T. Choctaw: always be in, in a prayerful, you know, always have the prayerful attitude. Okay. Pray without cing. Okay. Jesse L Hammonds: It's also translated to be. And so that as well as , another scripture and I've had it throughout my whole life Roman 28. And that is that all things work together, you know, for good, for those Dr. William T. Choctaw: who love. God. Jesse L Hammonds: Okay. According to, according to your calling, you know, due to, to his purpose, which becomes your purpose. And, Dr. William T. Choctaw: and I've Jesse L Hammonds: always been Dr. William T. Choctaw: about helping others.

35:04 I've always used that phrase. Jesse L Hammonds: I can help you with that, or I can Dr. William T. Choctaw: help with that. Because it's always been Jesse L Hammonds: in Dr. William T. Choctaw: me and I believe Jesse L Hammonds: that is a result of, you know, the leadership of my, my mother and my father, you know, you know, they always, you know, helped others and others. And a lot of people came to them, you know, I, that's what I saw a whole lot to my, my guy, my father was a wise guy. You know and people would always come to him and he only had a seventh grade education. Dr. William T. Choctaw: But he knew that Bible backwards Jesse L Hammonds: and forwards.

35:47 He was the director, what we call a training for service, which also called BTU back in the day. And my mother, she was on the usher board. But my dad, he was, he was renowned and, and, and revered, Dr. William T. Choctaw: you know everywhere. Jesse L Hammonds: And it used to tickle him as to. the heights that he's he was able to attain and he you know he gives it all to the Lord. And I, and that was my example. And I've used that, you know, throughout my life it has, it has helped me cause I've, you know, I've been through some, some valleys and and, and I feel sorry for those that don't have hope.

36:29 I, Dr. William T. Choctaw: I always have hope and it's based in, you know, scripture and, Jesse L Hammonds: and it has proven to be real for me. Dr. William T. Choctaw: Had to test it Jesse L Hammonds: in a number of cases Dr. William T. Choctaw: there. And it's like, Lord, Jesse L Hammonds: if you're not for real, I'm not Dr. William T. Choctaw: here. Well, there's no question that I think your hope and your faith. Which was established for you by your parents very, very early and certainly have sustained you throughout your life in terms of being selected to be leaders or a leadership roles very, very young, whether in church or other types of place all the way through the Air Force through AT& T.

37:15 And I, I can honestly say that would be no Healthy, Wealthy and Wise podcast. But, but for your involvement, because you had the idea and it's those ideas that basically take us to the next level. I, I know that you are a very, very busy person. I want to be respectful of your time. Are there any parting thoughts that you would like to leave with us before we Jesse L Hammonds: let you go? Stay tuned for part two. Dr. William T. Choctaw: I'm Jesse L Hammonds: looking, Dr. William T. Choctaw: I'm Jesse L Hammonds: looking down because I had jotted down a few things there and cause as you might imagine over a 25 year period career at AT& T and lots of stuff happened.

38:01 No, Dr. William T. Choctaw: no, no, that's fine. I Jesse L Hammonds: office, and this is along the lines of leadership as well. I, I was leading a, a group of what they called RAs or, or which were basically people that received orders and they redid the order in the system. They systems work, Dr. William T. Choctaw: but the, the recent Jesse L Hammonds: chain management or maintenance area. At any rate we received a call, it was urgent, President Reagan had died, and so they had to put together teams, you know, to get Dr. William T. Choctaw: things ready up there Jesse L Hammonds: Where where's the library at?

38:41 I forget, wherever the library was, or eventually was. Okay. So we, Dr. William T. Choctaw: there was a Jesse L Hammonds: lot of orders in, and the orders were just packets of, of information that, that you had to build phone lines, you had to build conduits and all that, all, all electronically to send out to the field for the, the men and women to go out and, and do the construction part of it Dr. William T. Choctaw: to set up for this funeral. And we had to done stack. Well, I think that that's a, that's an excellent cliff anger. To, to leave Jesse L Hammonds: it. Like I said, it can go Dr. William T. Choctaw: wherever. What happened with within and outside of AT& T when the President of the United States died?

39:31 Yes. And what, what was involved? And, and clearly. I'm sure you would have some insights that most of us would never know or would never have. But we want to thank you for your, your very precious time and thank you for being with us today. And we will be in touch and to, to develop part two. Yes. Of our interview with Jesse L. Hammonds. For those of you who are watching please remember. That this is one of our many podcasts that we do approximately one podcast per week. And we ask that you continue to follow us and become patrons. And we'll, as we always like to say, be the change.

40:13 that you want to see in the world. Thank you very, very much. Have a great Jesse L Hammonds: evening. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Healthy, Wealthy, and Wise podcast with Dr. William T. Choctaw, MD, JD. Be sure to check out other great episodes covering areas of health, wealth, and wisdom at thwwp. com. And while you're there, be sure to check out the books, blogs, and other literature in your preferred format. And don't forget to leave a review. Subscribe, share and support the podcast. Dr. William T. Choctaw: That's at t Jesse L Hammonds: wwp.com. You've been listening to the Healthy, wealthy and Wise Podcast with Dr.

40:54 William t Choctaw. MDJD.