1. Raising Resilient Kids: Letting Them Experience Life's "Embarrassments" vs. Helicopter Parenting

100:00:01,160 --> 00:00:02,290Mr. Jesse L Hammonds: Welcometo the healthy, wealthy,200:00:02,290 --> 00:00:03,790and wise podcast with Dr.300:00:03,790 --> 00:00:04,399William T.400:00:04,399 --> 00:00:05,090Choctaw, MD,500:00:05,149 --> 00:00:06,850Dr. William T Choctaw: JD, where the600:00:06,850 --> 00:00:09,899Mr. Jesse L Hammonds: doctor helps youunlock your full potential by equipping700:00:09,899 --> 00:00:15,309you with tools and knowledge in the areasof health, wealth, and wisdom anchored in800:00:15,310 --> 00:00:19,700his experience as a business executive,a physician, the surveyor for the joint900:00:19,700 --> 00:00:25,340commission, a former mayor, and over 50years of experience as a general surgeon,1000:00:25,770 --> 00:00:27,970you've got questions, he's got answers.1100:00:28,380 --> 00:00:29,270So let's get started.1200:00:30,480 --> 00:00:30,520Dr.1300:00:30,520 --> 00:00:31,070William T.1400:00:31,100 --> 00:00:31,620Choctaw,1500:00:31,950 --> 00:00:32,150Dr. William T Choctaw: M.1600:00:32,150 --> 00:00:33,060D., J.1700:00:33,060 --> 00:00:33,530D.1800:00:34,080 --> 00:00:37,860Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, again tothe Health and Wealth and Wise podcast.1900:00:37,890 --> 00:00:42,340We're absolutely delighted,absolutely delighted to have a2000:00:42,360 --> 00:00:44,959very special guest with us, Mr.2100:00:44,960 --> 00:00:46,139Rudy Chavarria.2200:00:46,879 --> 00:00:50,089Mr. Rudy: But two things, I havea, I have a friend of mine who is2300:00:50,189 --> 00:00:57,849he's 58, he's changing careers andhe really actually hasn't had very2400:00:57,849 --> 00:00:59,659good luck with, with careers anyway.2500:01:01,039 --> 00:01:01,619Mathematician.2600:01:02,199 --> 00:01:02,829Brilliant.2700:01:03,399 --> 00:01:11,909He also is He was a schoolteacher,mathematics for eight years, and but2800:01:11,909 --> 00:01:15,239he was, he was I'm sorry, not eightyears, five years, and he was, he was2900:01:15,239 --> 00:01:18,359let go from all, from eight differentschool districts in Orange County.3000:01:18,709 --> 00:01:18,969Okay.3100:01:20,149 --> 00:01:20,539And3200:01:20,549 --> 00:01:23,439the thing is, he's one of thosemath teachers that you had when3300:01:23,439 --> 00:01:26,009you were in junior high school,high school, everybody hated them.3400:01:26,419 --> 00:01:26,749Right.3500:01:28,639 --> 00:01:29,969People would write things on his.3600:01:30,535 --> 00:01:31,615On his door.3700:01:31,765 --> 00:01:32,485Oh my goodness.3800:01:33,715 --> 00:01:38,395And he was kind of, you know justnot the popular math teacher.3900:01:38,525 --> 00:01:38,675Got it.4000:01:39,655 --> 00:01:44,355And now he's changing careers again,and I just feel so bad for him.4100:01:44,635 --> 00:01:44,855Yes.4200:01:45,975 --> 00:01:53,825And, and so And it worries me becauseI can't help but wonder sometimes if,4300:01:53,895 --> 00:01:57,285if he might, because he's not married,he does, he's not in a relationship4400:01:57,335 --> 00:01:59,365if he would end up becoming suicidal.4500:01:59,885 --> 00:02:00,045I understand.4600:02:00,045 --> 00:02:04,494He has really, really, you knowhe's got a sister, his parents both4700:02:04,494 --> 00:02:06,004passed away about two years ago.4800:02:06,714 --> 00:02:06,894Mm hmm.4900:02:08,064 --> 00:02:09,154And that concerns me.5000:02:09,644 --> 00:02:15,469And so to, to go back to when he wasin his twenties You know, and, and5100:02:16,339 --> 00:02:19,409dealing with college students like I domentoring them and high school students,5200:02:19,409 --> 00:02:23,729I, I want to see if there's anythingthat, any advice that you could help5300:02:23,729 --> 00:02:28,479me figure this out with for high schoolstudents and college students that are5400:02:28,479 --> 00:02:34,389trying to avoid that that spot where youcan end up when you're in your career.5500:02:34,784 --> 00:02:43,22440s, late 40s, early 50s, mid 50s, youstart to experience ageism, which some5600:02:43,264 --> 00:02:46,274friend of mine just told me yesterdayin the conversation that boy, if you're5700:02:46,274 --> 00:02:51,984in your 30s and you're in China you'reconsidered an old man or I think,5800:02:52,054 --> 00:02:54,864yeah, 30s, 40s, something like that.5900:02:54,864 --> 00:02:56,204Good luck trying to find a job.6000:02:57,134 --> 00:02:59,164And so that I think is a topic that.6100:03:00,329 --> 00:03:07,209I'd like to discuss with you on how toavoid, you know, those type of situations6200:03:07,209 --> 00:03:12,519of when, like I said, when you're in your40s and 50s and want to change, and in6300:03:12,519 --> 00:03:16,139particular, like, how did you know, Dr.6400:03:16,139 --> 00:03:21,859Choctaw, that you wanted to be a doctorand your path, and how did you get there?6500:03:21,859 --> 00:03:26,629I mean, you just seem, you seem soon point with everything in your6600:03:26,629 --> 00:03:28,399life, that everything was planned.6700:03:28,409 --> 00:03:29,049Everything.6800:03:30,129 --> 00:03:33,189And even when I met you in 85, youjust, you know, you walked into the6900:03:33,189 --> 00:03:36,959room and you just, you dressed nice,you had a swagger about you, had a7000:03:36,959 --> 00:03:39,409confidence, you were very well spoken.7100:03:40,279 --> 00:03:44,129And now fast forward to where you arenow, you know, almost 35 years later, and7200:03:44,129 --> 00:03:46,439you're still there, if not even more so.7300:03:47,299 --> 00:03:53,109And if, if I can take that secret saucethat you have and, and say this is how Dr.7400:03:53,109 --> 00:03:56,249Choctaw did it, we're going to packageit up and we're going to tell you7500:03:56,249 --> 00:04:00,059all of you high school students andcollege students, this is how you do it.7600:04:01,009 --> 00:04:04,439I'd love to, to hear from youon that, even though I know7700:04:04,439 --> 00:04:05,699you're interviewing me, I mean.7800:04:05,759 --> 00:04:06,899Okay, no, that's fine.7900:04:07,329 --> 00:04:08,580Wisdom would I think.8000:04:10,060 --> 00:04:13,750Help all those other students thatare, maybe people even in their8100:04:13,750 --> 00:04:15,880fifties, try and still figure it out.8200:04:15,880 --> 00:04:18,490And I tell college students and highschool students, don't worry about it.8300:04:18,730 --> 00:04:21,820Even when you're infant in your fifties,you're still trying to figure it out.8400:04:22,200 --> 00:04:23,760Dr. William T Choctaw:Right, right, right.8500:04:24,090 --> 00:04:27,930Well, you know, I, I can certainlycomment on that and, and let me just say8600:04:27,930 --> 00:04:32,770to the audience, if you're just joiningus, we're with Rudy Chavarria who is.8700:04:32,865 --> 00:04:37,935an expert on assisting individualson their path to education,8800:04:37,935 --> 00:04:39,645be it college and otherwise.8900:04:39,985 --> 00:04:43,985And and we're, we're, we're chattingabout different things in life and9000:04:43,985 --> 00:04:46,285particularly as it relates to education.9100:04:46,505 --> 00:04:50,425In terms of my story and I don'tknow, I don't know whether we've,9200:04:50,435 --> 00:04:52,945we've had this conversationbefore, but I'll share it with you.9300:04:52,965 --> 00:04:56,315I grew up as a fosterchild, but my mother.9400:04:56,550 --> 00:04:56,820Okay.9500:04:57,310 --> 00:04:57,880Yeah, I know.9600:04:58,120 --> 00:05:02,990My mother was 17 years old when I wasborn and this is a Nashville, Tennessee.9700:05:03,430 --> 00:05:08,380And if you could imagine if you're aperson of color in the deep South in the9800:05:09,200 --> 00:05:15,740late 1940s, You know and certainly forgirls who got pregnant in high school you,9900:05:15,760 --> 00:05:19,910you, that, that were no avenues for youto finish high school or, or to graduate.10000:05:20,290 --> 00:05:25,990And so what she did, God bless her isthat she decided that her first born child10100:05:26,380 --> 00:05:30,170would, would, would get an education,that she would do whatever she could.10200:05:30,170 --> 00:05:34,090Now, there wasn't a lot, you know 17year old high school dropout could10300:05:34,090 --> 00:05:37,260do, but she had a belief system.10400:05:37,875 --> 00:05:40,015And she put that belief system in me.10500:05:40,045 --> 00:05:44,775And so to answer your first question,and, and I say this when I talk to folks,10600:05:44,775 --> 00:05:49,215particularly maybe individuals who'venot had a straight path, but who've had10700:05:49,215 --> 00:05:53,505more of a circuitous path to get intowhere they want to go, number one, be10800:05:53,515 --> 00:05:55,215careful what you say to your children.10900:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,300Be careful what you say to yourchildren, because what you say11000:05:59,300 --> 00:06:01,510to your children will come true.11100:06:02,060 --> 00:06:07,160She told me at age five, I kid younot, that she wanted me to be a doctor.11200:06:07,180 --> 00:06:09,690She said, you will be a doctor,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.11300:06:09,890 --> 00:06:12,650And what was unique about that,I didn't know what a doctor was.11400:06:12,930 --> 00:06:16,040We were poor living in therural part of Tennessee.11500:06:16,270 --> 00:06:17,410We didn't go see doctors.11600:06:17,600 --> 00:06:18,480We couldn't afford it.11700:06:18,800 --> 00:06:23,360And because the color of our skin, we werelimited to the hospitals we can go to.11800:06:23,370 --> 00:06:24,490We couldn't go to the.11900:06:25,040 --> 00:06:28,440And so, you know, when we gotsick, we went to the lady down12000:06:28,450 --> 00:06:32,740the street and she did God knowswhatever she did that we felt better.12100:06:35,150 --> 00:06:40,400I have no idea what she did, butbut my point is intentionality.12200:06:40,860 --> 00:06:42,250It was her intent.12300:06:42,470 --> 00:06:43,290wasn't mine.12400:06:43,530 --> 00:06:49,340It was her intent that I would be a doctorthat she took whatever disappointment she12500:06:49,340 --> 00:06:52,430had and she put all that into her son.12600:06:52,860 --> 00:06:56,020And she said, you will do this andyou will do that and blah, blah,12700:06:56,020 --> 00:06:57,150blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.12800:06:57,730 --> 00:07:00,640That started me on, on, on my course.12900:07:01,010 --> 00:07:04,990And Even when I didn't know what itwas, I used to say, people said, well,13000:07:04,990 --> 00:07:06,680what do you want to be when you grow up?13100:07:06,700 --> 00:07:07,810I said, Oh, I'm going to be a doctor.13200:07:07,810 --> 00:07:08,980I said, Oh, that sounds great.13300:07:08,990 --> 00:07:09,630That sounds great.13400:07:09,880 --> 00:07:11,520I had no idea what that meant.13500:07:11,840 --> 00:07:16,770But, but as I got older, Ikept saying it and that I had13600:07:16,770 --> 00:07:18,210made that commitment to her.13700:07:18,610 --> 00:07:20,090And so, so I think that's important.13800:07:20,110 --> 00:07:24,020The second thing is, I do believethat confidence is, is a big deal.13900:07:24,310 --> 00:07:27,450And I think that confidence came fromher because I said, well, my mother14000:07:27,450 --> 00:07:31,120wouldn't ask me to do it if she didn'tthink I was confident enough to do it.14100:07:31,210 --> 00:07:32,200She wouldn't do that.14200:07:32,700 --> 00:07:33,690And she's my mother.14300:07:33,700 --> 00:07:35,430She knows me better than anybody else.14400:07:35,430 --> 00:07:39,360So long story short, that, that'ssort of how that came about with me.14500:07:39,550 --> 00:07:43,340And that has propelled meto this day, to this day.14600:07:43,665 --> 00:07:44,985Mr. Rudy: Yeah, brilliant.14700:07:45,745 --> 00:07:49,705And what about now that you're, you know,you're older or, or for some men, they14800:07:49,705 --> 00:07:52,145go through what is called manopause.14900:07:53,205 --> 00:07:53,505Yes.15000:07:54,095 --> 00:07:54,985Crisis.15100:07:55,365 --> 00:07:55,455Yes.15200:07:55,965 --> 00:08:00,775When the body starts to change, menlose testosterone more than, I think you15300:08:00,775 --> 00:08:06,525might even know more than me that bodymuscle tissues, muscle cells on a man.15400:08:06,525 --> 00:08:07,335Yes, yes.15500:08:08,045 --> 00:08:12,035Start to go down at, from 30, they go downlike, I don't know, 10 percent every year.15600:08:12,455 --> 00:08:12,895Yes,15700:08:14,025 --> 00:08:16,615Dr. William T Choctaw: the realityis we all go through change, men15800:08:16,615 --> 00:08:20,525and women, and you're right, men gothrough change just like women go15900:08:20,525 --> 00:08:24,765through change, women just talk aboutit more, men don't talk about it.16000:08:25,165 --> 00:08:29,850I, I, you know, there's no question, Ithink all of us, when we hit Probably in16100:08:29,850 --> 00:08:34,580the mid forties, late forties, we sort ofhad what, what some people call crisis.16200:08:34,600 --> 00:08:39,510I wouldn't call it crisis, but at leastwe have a conversation with ourselves.16300:08:39,800 --> 00:08:41,380Am I where I want it to be?16400:08:41,400 --> 00:08:43,090Is this what I wanted in life?16500:08:43,090 --> 00:08:45,270Is this, is this blah, blah, blah.16600:08:45,270 --> 00:08:48,960You know, we, we, it's sort of likewe take a self survey, if you will.16700:08:49,290 --> 00:08:50,430Am I happy?16800:08:50,720 --> 00:08:52,310Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.16900:08:52,540 --> 00:08:54,660And I think both men and women do that.17000:08:54,660 --> 00:08:58,460I think women probably tend to bea bit, in my opinion, more mature17100:08:58,460 --> 00:09:01,010about it and, and that sort of thing.17200:09:01,240 --> 00:09:05,570Men tend to struggle, I think,more with it, probably because17300:09:05,580 --> 00:09:07,200we're honest, open about it.17400:09:07,450 --> 00:09:11,460And we won't talk to peopleabout it, but it is, it is real.17500:09:11,685 --> 00:09:13,185It is absolutely real.17600:09:13,435 --> 00:09:17,455And so I think to answer your firstquestion, first, you embrace it.17700:09:17,495 --> 00:09:19,555You understand that this is not new.17800:09:19,585 --> 00:09:20,875This is not unusual.17900:09:21,075 --> 00:09:22,145I'm not weird.18000:09:22,145 --> 00:09:23,675There's nothing wrong with me.18100:09:24,015 --> 00:09:27,605You know, I'm just going throughthe stage, just like teenagers18200:09:27,605 --> 00:09:30,315at 16 go through a certain stage.18300:09:30,545 --> 00:09:32,075And this has to do there.18400:09:32,075 --> 00:09:36,605There's a lot of geneticand biological reason here.18500:09:36,915 --> 00:09:39,305Certain ages, our body is designed to do.18600:09:39,395 --> 00:09:40,015certain things.18700:09:40,015 --> 00:09:42,055The brain sort of runs what we do.18800:09:42,405 --> 00:09:46,945We always like to say how I, whatI believe affects how I think,18900:09:47,295 --> 00:09:51,895how I think affects how I feel,how I feel affects how I act.19000:09:52,315 --> 00:09:58,095So those belief systems were begunback in early childhood and, and19100:09:58,095 --> 00:10:02,115based on our experiences and what wewere talking, what people said to us.19200:10:02,455 --> 00:10:05,505But, but it's something that we allgo through and it's completely normal.19300:10:05,775 --> 00:10:06,715Completely normal.19400:10:07,235 --> 00:10:08,795Mr. Rudy: That was wonderfulwhat you just said.19500:10:09,005 --> 00:10:09,895That was wonderful.19600:10:09,895 --> 00:10:11,695That's something I'm goingto start telling my seven19700:10:11,695 --> 00:10:12,755year old eight year old son.19800:10:13,085 --> 00:10:14,135Dr. William T Choctaw: Yes, yes.19900:10:14,255 --> 00:10:14,335Brilliant.20000:10:14,935 --> 00:10:15,735Start now.20100:10:15,895 --> 00:10:19,925You can never bet, but I believe thisbecause in my experience, you can20200:10:19,925 --> 00:10:22,075never, you can never begin too early.20300:10:22,610 --> 00:10:22,970Yes.20400:10:23,030 --> 00:10:28,440You know, there is no downside that thereis no downside basically that you, you20500:10:28,440 --> 00:10:32,820just start and, and, and with littlethings, basic things, stay in positive.20600:10:33,090 --> 00:10:38,060You can still correct and, and correctthe child and, and obviously be a parent,20700:10:38,480 --> 00:10:40,870but you can do it in a, in a positive way.20800:10:40,870 --> 00:10:45,030Instead of saying you're a badperson, you can say you did20900:10:45,030 --> 00:10:46,610something that was not good.21000:10:46,890 --> 00:10:50,920So it's not the individual is toact and you can change the act.21100:10:51,530 --> 00:10:54,800You know, of what you did, you know,with the education experience, blah,21200:10:54,800 --> 00:10:57,630blah, blah, but never make them feel bad.21300:10:57,630 --> 00:10:59,860And the fact that she toldme I would be a doctor.21400:10:59,920 --> 00:11:01,070I am now a doctor.21500:11:01,320 --> 00:11:04,620I'm sure that their parents thattell their kids things like you21600:11:04,620 --> 00:11:06,110will never amount to anything.21700:11:06,120 --> 00:11:07,170You're a bad kid.21800:11:07,180 --> 00:11:09,290You're not like your brother,you know, that sort of thing.21900:11:09,600 --> 00:11:11,770So you want to, you want tohave parents stay away from the22000:11:11,770 --> 00:11:15,540negative because kids, people, andwe adults, we carry that stuff.22100:11:15,560 --> 00:11:16,810We call it baggage.22200:11:17,170 --> 00:11:20,370And a lot of psychologists haveto do a lot of work to help.22300:11:20,670 --> 00:11:22,490Get rid of a lot of that baggage.22400:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,950Mr. Rudy: Yes, you know, youbring that up, how we carry22500:11:25,990 --> 00:11:27,730things with us in our lives.22600:11:28,090 --> 00:11:30,420My grandmother lived tobe 93 in the last year.22700:11:31,140 --> 00:11:35,570I would, I would go stay with her becausemy mother was living with her at the time.22800:11:35,860 --> 00:11:38,280I would stay two days 9 a.22900:11:38,290 --> 00:11:38,510m.23000:11:38,540 --> 00:11:39,690to 5 to 6 p.23100:11:39,690 --> 00:11:39,910m.23200:11:39,995 --> 00:11:43,125And that allowed mymom to be with our son.23300:11:44,095 --> 00:11:46,865She could be with him, and thiswas before he was in school.23400:11:47,135 --> 00:11:50,325And in those times, I remember,to go along with what you're23500:11:50,325 --> 00:11:51,675saying, we carried that baggage.23600:11:52,115 --> 00:11:55,875She was 92 and telling me storiesof what her parents would tell her.23700:11:56,855 --> 00:11:59,305And I just was, and Icould see the hurt in her.23800:11:59,305 --> 00:12:01,185Here she is, 92 years old.23900:12:01,245 --> 00:12:01,515Yes.24000:12:02,125 --> 00:12:05,165She recalls the moments wherethe things that her mother's24100:12:05,185 --> 00:12:07,525told her when she was 9, 12.24200:12:07,675 --> 00:12:08,175Yes.24300:12:08,315 --> 00:12:09,355She was 92.24400:12:09,365 --> 00:12:09,675So.24500:12:10,120 --> 00:12:11,390Yeah, I agree with what you're saying.24600:12:11,400 --> 00:12:13,910Watch what we say to our kids.24700:12:14,230 --> 00:12:15,970And yeah, yeah,24800:12:16,180 --> 00:12:16,450Dr. William T Choctaw: yeah.24900:12:16,510 --> 00:12:20,700And I think a lot of times, again,this is my belief, and I think25000:12:20,700 --> 00:12:22,550there's some biology to back this up.25100:12:22,910 --> 00:12:27,040Men have more, fathers have morechallenges with that than mothers.25200:12:27,630 --> 00:12:32,500And, and so one, I have two sons andso one, one, one of the things that I25300:12:32,500 --> 00:12:37,510did with, with my sons growing up isthat I would, I would tell them that25400:12:37,510 --> 00:12:41,610I loved them as a father, you know,because, you know, and, and, and a lot25500:12:41,610 --> 00:12:43,720of kids have what we call daddy issues.25600:12:43,720 --> 00:12:45,850You know, my, my dadnever told me he loved me.25700:12:45,850 --> 00:12:47,940He never blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah.25800:12:49,050 --> 00:12:53,760And a lot of times we, we mendon't think about that stuff.25900:12:53,760 --> 00:12:55,220We say, well, no, they, they know.26000:12:55,250 --> 00:12:55,950I don't have to tell them.26100:12:55,950 --> 00:12:59,360I'm going to tell you, you do have to tellthem you do have to, that you need to hug26200:12:59,360 --> 00:13:01,060them, you know, you need to show them.26300:13:01,310 --> 00:13:03,130And, and there's nothing wrong with that.26400:13:03,380 --> 00:13:05,380And I think a lot of it is generational.26500:13:05,625 --> 00:13:09,325You know, in the forties and fiftiesand sixties, men were taught to be26600:13:09,325 --> 00:13:13,335a, so I can even think about as aphysician, I'm a much different position26700:13:13,335 --> 00:13:16,105now than I was 40, 50 years ago.26800:13:16,125 --> 00:13:19,535You know, you, you don't hug yourpatients, you don't cry in front of your26900:13:19,535 --> 00:13:24,860patients, but, but I learned that assomeone once said, People care about what27000:13:24,860 --> 00:13:29,180you do, people care less about what youknow, then, then, then how you make them27100:13:29,180 --> 00:13:31,570feel, you know, that you care about them.27200:13:31,970 --> 00:13:37,160And so I've learned that an empatheticor a human physician is a better27300:13:37,160 --> 00:13:42,000physician than what, what your MCATscores are, how, how, where you27400:13:42,000 --> 00:13:43,410went to school and all that stuff.27500:13:43,510 --> 00:13:43,810Mr. Rudy: Yes.27600:13:44,735 --> 00:13:45,695You bring up a good point.27700:13:45,695 --> 00:13:49,205You know, my wife does cardiothoracicsurgery and and she tells me all27800:13:49,225 --> 00:13:53,355the time that the, the hospitalsare really looking for surgeons.27900:13:53,910 --> 00:13:56,410That do come from a different, you bet,28000:13:57,280 --> 00:13:57,680Dr. William T Choctaw: you bet28100:13:57,680 --> 00:14:04,920Mr. Rudy: the gentleman that I hada hernia a few years back and the28200:14:04,920 --> 00:14:11,190gentleman who, who worked on me when Iwent, he went to go to check on the the,28300:14:11,360 --> 00:14:13,110the sutures and everything was fine.28400:14:13,370 --> 00:14:15,250I asked him and I said, I said to him.28500:14:16,225 --> 00:14:18,165How did you become what you are?28600:14:18,425 --> 00:14:20,375I mean, what made you knowwhat you wanted to be?28700:14:20,375 --> 00:14:24,055And he said to me, and he leans back,he's holding on to his clipboard and28800:14:24,055 --> 00:14:28,505he says, I was actually a fifth gradeelementary school teacher for four years.28900:14:28,655 --> 00:14:28,905Okay.29000:14:29,315 --> 00:14:33,625I, I went to medical school and Isaid, and I, and then I said, no29100:14:33,625 --> 00:14:36,005wonder why you're such a good doctor.29200:14:36,005 --> 00:14:37,955Because you get it.29300:14:37,975 --> 00:14:44,975You, you knew what it, what it took to,to, you know, harness 29 or 32 different.29400:14:45,505 --> 00:14:50,485Fifth graders and communicate with themand discipline them and teach them and29500:14:50,495 --> 00:14:54,705the personality differences and thentheir parents on back to school night29600:14:54,705 --> 00:14:59,785and, you know, all that you're goshand I'm like, you get it you totally29700:14:59,785 --> 00:15:01,995understand and he did when he came in.29800:15:02,130 --> 00:15:07,400He talked to me like,just like a normal person.29900:15:07,600 --> 00:15:08,150Dr. William T Choctaw: Yes.30000:15:08,390 --> 00:15:12,160You and I first met many yearsago when I was Mayor of Walnut.30100:15:12,160 --> 00:15:18,560And I've said many times to my friendsbeing mayor or being in outside of30200:15:18,570 --> 00:15:22,870the hospital made me a better doctorbecause I was around regular people.30300:15:22,900 --> 00:15:24,230I was around normal people.30400:15:24,480 --> 00:15:25,960Healthcare is not normal.30500:15:27,320 --> 00:15:29,660Physicians are not regular people.30600:15:29,840 --> 00:15:30,590We are not.30700:15:30,830 --> 00:15:32,530We have to relearn that.30800:15:32,530 --> 00:15:32,870Thanks.30900:15:33,040 --> 00:15:34,670You know, it is so true.31000:15:34,710 --> 00:15:38,670And, and I, I used to laugh a lot oftimes when, when I was married, people31100:15:38,670 --> 00:15:41,570would come to city council meeting,they're yelling and they're screaming31200:15:41,570 --> 00:15:44,060and they're calling us, calling us names.31300:15:44,280 --> 00:15:49,810And I would smile because for me, itwas therapy as, as crazy as that sounds.31400:15:50,140 --> 00:15:52,430Cause I would say, numberone, how bad can it be?31500:15:52,440 --> 00:15:53,910Nobody's going to die here.31600:15:54,310 --> 00:15:57,060So, so the sprinkles don't work.31700:15:57,090 --> 00:15:57,510Okay.31800:15:57,560 --> 00:15:58,150I get it.31900:15:58,150 --> 00:15:58,620I get it.32000:16:00,290 --> 00:16:01,885And then they're yelling at you.32100:16:01,885 --> 00:16:02,545That's right.32200:16:03,805 --> 00:16:07,925But, but I think, I think it, itis, it is strange how that occurs,32300:16:08,255 --> 00:16:10,355but that we, we study so hard.32400:16:10,355 --> 00:16:13,265It is so intense, butit is a different world.32500:16:13,265 --> 00:16:16,145But yet we have to treat peoplein the, in the real world.32600:16:16,265 --> 00:16:19,945How do you treat somebody if you don'tunderstand where they're coming from?32700:16:20,505 --> 00:16:24,735You know, and, you know, and howcan you be empathetic with somebody32800:16:24,735 --> 00:16:28,225if you've never seen or understoodthem and know anything about them32900:16:28,435 --> 00:16:30,315or their culture or anything else?33000:16:30,505 --> 00:16:32,525And I'm not saying you'vegot to know all cultures.33100:16:32,765 --> 00:16:36,625You just got to know how to respectpeople and you learn respect just by33200:16:36,655 --> 00:16:39,055being around people, you know but, but.33300:16:39,420 --> 00:16:44,530Clearly, I learned that, that I becamea better doctor when I did non medical33400:16:44,540 --> 00:16:49,440stuff, when I inter react with people,not as their physician, because as33500:16:49,440 --> 00:16:53,360their physician, I'm in a certain mode,I'm in a certain frame of mind, I know33600:16:53,360 --> 00:16:55,820what I'm going to say, I know whatI'm going to go through, blah, blah,33700:16:55,820 --> 00:16:57,020blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.33800:16:57,985 --> 00:17:01,575But once I get outside, I'm justlike you and you're just like me.33900:17:02,045 --> 00:17:07,125And, and that's eye opening for mostphysicians and hospitals now are working34000:17:07,125 --> 00:17:12,735on that because there's such a highlevel of physician burnout and suicide.34100:17:12,855 --> 00:17:18,625You know, The downside of what we do,and ticket surgeons, because we're34200:17:18,625 --> 00:17:23,085probably the extreme of that, isthat that stress and all that stuff34300:17:23,095 --> 00:17:25,395has a toll, it takes a toll on us.34400:17:25,805 --> 00:17:29,825At the end of the day, we tell ourselvesthat we're superhuman, but the reality34500:17:29,835 --> 00:17:31,645is we're just like everybody else.34600:17:32,160 --> 00:17:36,590And what I do when I get the docs togetherand I give them talks, I tell them that,34700:17:37,040 --> 00:17:38,810you know, we're no better, no worse.34800:17:39,410 --> 00:17:42,150And once we understand that,then we can deal with the34900:17:42,150 --> 00:17:45,310reality of how can I be better?35000:17:45,340 --> 00:17:46,940How can I be a better doctor?35100:17:47,200 --> 00:17:50,100And the first way to be a betterdoctor is to be a better husband.35200:17:50,515 --> 00:17:55,555Be a better wife, be a better mom, be abetter dad because all, because it's just35300:17:55,555 --> 00:17:57,285human beings dealing with human beings.35400:17:57,285 --> 00:18:01,345Doesn't matter what your, whatyour career is specifically.35500:18:01,545 --> 00:18:05,085But I learned that by getting outsideof medicine, I was better in medicine.35600:18:05,910 --> 00:18:09,190Mr. Rudy: You know, when I first metyou, I, I didn't see you as a doctor,35700:18:11,510 --> 00:18:13,750but I didn't see you as a doctor.35800:18:13,750 --> 00:18:15,730I was the mayor.35900:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,380So yeah, everything you're sayingthough, makes complete sense.36000:18:21,630 --> 00:18:24,270To go back to what I had said,there were two things that I36100:18:24,770 --> 00:18:25,800kind of wanted to talk about.36200:18:25,800 --> 00:18:27,900One was, so this way, students.36300:18:28,420 --> 00:18:32,550would understand decisions thatthey make, influences that they36400:18:32,550 --> 00:18:39,090choose to either subscribe to orpush away from them, negative.36500:18:39,150 --> 00:18:39,400Huh.36600:18:39,590 --> 00:18:41,750The second is, is is suicide.36700:18:42,580 --> 00:18:42,660Okay.36800:18:43,490 --> 00:18:47,590And because like I had said,I fear that my friend might36900:18:47,590 --> 00:18:49,100in the end just be suicidal.37000:18:49,760 --> 00:18:55,110And what's interesting is, is also thewhen we talked about suicide within37100:18:55,160 --> 00:18:59,870physicians and and even in teenagersnow, it's just, it's so pocketed.37200:19:00,280 --> 00:19:00,500Yes.37300:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,580And that's one of the things, I mean,I, I, why I wanted to talk about it is37400:19:04,580 --> 00:19:08,190because, and I know we're transitioninghere, is because I feel like there's,37500:19:08,430 --> 00:19:13,710and I've had a number of friends ofmine commit suicide where they just37600:19:13,710 --> 00:19:19,450felt there was no hope and they justfelt better if, if it was over with.37700:19:20,220 --> 00:19:24,680And, you know, I wanted to, andyou brought it up already, how so37800:19:24,680 --> 00:19:29,795many doctors And physicians andeven dentists, teachers, whatever.37900:19:30,945 --> 00:19:36,385And your opinion is, is there likea medical reason why this is, or38000:19:36,385 --> 00:19:38,735do you think it's purely emotional?38100:19:39,425 --> 00:19:41,415Like what you said, if, ifparents are saying, Oh, you'll38200:19:41,415 --> 00:19:42,395never amount to nothing.38300:19:42,405 --> 00:19:47,025And then finally it just builds up somuch that it pushes them into anxiety,38400:19:47,045 --> 00:19:49,315anxiety, into stress, anger, depression.38500:19:49,495 --> 00:19:53,275Then finally they're just ready togive up hope and, and give up on life.38600:19:54,160 --> 00:19:57,850How do you feel about,especially, if I can bring this38700:19:57,850 --> 00:19:59,150down even more so into focus.38800:19:59,150 --> 00:19:59,350Sure.38900:19:59,860 --> 00:20:04,260About high school students, and,and in particular junior high39000:20:04,260 --> 00:20:07,620school and high school studentswho finally start to get a taste of39100:20:07,620 --> 00:20:09,100social media with their cell phones.39200:20:09,120 --> 00:20:13,400Because I, I just came from our son'saward ceremony this morning, he's39300:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,070in second grade, he got an awardand a bunch of other students got39400:20:16,070 --> 00:20:19,000awards, and they're just so lively.39500:20:19,570 --> 00:20:22,720But then when I cross and I lookat junior high school students.39600:20:23,595 --> 00:20:25,155They're so withdrawn.39700:20:25,435 --> 00:20:25,615Yes.39800:20:25,615 --> 00:20:30,745And as you remember being in juniorhigh school when you start to feel39900:20:30,745 --> 00:20:35,155all this and, and what is youropinion on how do you think we can40000:20:35,155 --> 00:20:37,005handle it as a parent like myself?40100:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,750Who has an eight year old whoeventually, in four years, is40200:20:40,750 --> 00:20:44,550going to start being introducedto cell phones and social media.40300:20:44,920 --> 00:20:45,280I40400:20:45,300 --> 00:20:47,400Dr. William T Choctaw: think thefirst thing, and actually I've40500:20:47,400 --> 00:20:51,990done a podcast on this, a coupleof them, that this is normal.40600:20:52,300 --> 00:20:52,940This is normal.40700:20:53,905 --> 00:20:56,005All of us go through different stages.40800:20:56,165 --> 00:21:00,025And what's, what's interesting is thatthere are biological reasons for that.40900:21:00,345 --> 00:21:03,995You know, obviously an eight yearold, an eight year old's brain is41000:21:03,995 --> 00:21:08,655not as developed as a 15 year old'sbrain and a 15 year old's brain, I'm41100:21:08,655 --> 00:21:13,295talking about cognitively now, is notas developed as a 25 year old's brain.41200:21:13,295 --> 00:21:20,425So a lot of times the things that our sayteenagers do that make no sense, you know,41300:21:20,585 --> 00:21:22,545they, they're just trying to process.41400:21:22,705 --> 00:21:27,265Everything they don't understand,like the 30 or the 40 year old parents41500:21:27,265 --> 00:21:30,765saying, well, the smart thing todo would have been a, B, C and D.41600:21:31,025 --> 00:21:32,645You know, they're stilltrying to process this.41700:21:32,675 --> 00:21:38,655And then to your point, you throw inthis world of, of, of the web and the41800:21:38,665 --> 00:21:42,705internet, which was not, which wasnot a factor when I was growing up.41900:21:43,095 --> 00:21:46,615And, and that just, that justmagnifies everything because you42000:21:46,615 --> 00:21:48,275can get everything on the internet.42100:21:48,275 --> 00:21:49,345You get information.42200:21:49,645 --> 00:21:51,095You can be resourceful.42300:21:51,295 --> 00:21:55,905So your children can be reached onthe web without you being aware of it42400:21:56,215 --> 00:21:58,015and, and have a whole different world.42500:21:58,015 --> 00:21:59,505So that just adds to the challenge.42600:21:59,505 --> 00:22:03,815But, but to be specific, there arebiological things that clearly account42700:22:03,825 --> 00:22:07,435for the different stages of developmentin life, whether you're an eight year42800:22:07,435 --> 00:22:10,275old, an 18 year old, or a 28 year old.42900:22:10,855 --> 00:22:11,945The brain is different.43000:22:12,285 --> 00:22:14,835The brain is, is, isdeveloped, develops different.43100:22:14,865 --> 00:22:15,405Number one.43200:22:15,655 --> 00:22:18,505Second thing is theenvironment is, is a factor.43300:22:18,725 --> 00:22:20,095Everybody's a little different.43400:22:20,095 --> 00:22:20,805And so there is.43500:22:20,875 --> 00:22:24,964So you know, there's no one size that fitsall, but, but there are certain basics43600:22:25,154 --> 00:22:31,954and, and, and basics like self esteem,self wealth worth and, and a lot of that43700:22:31,954 --> 00:22:35,964comes from the people who are closestto you, mom and dad, or that teacher43800:22:35,964 --> 00:22:41,164who you look up to, or that in law,that aunt or uncle who you look up to.43900:22:41,554 --> 00:22:45,514Those are the ones early on thatcan be, that can have a positive44000:22:45,514 --> 00:22:47,034or negative impact on you.44100:22:47,344 --> 00:22:48,214In terms of.44200:22:48,694 --> 00:22:49,894different parts of school.44300:22:49,944 --> 00:22:54,724I remember my worst time and Iwas in junior high school when44400:22:54,724 --> 00:22:56,084I was when I was in school.44500:22:56,404 --> 00:22:57,874I, I was angry.44600:22:57,924 --> 00:22:59,294I was angry at the world.44700:22:59,314 --> 00:23:02,984I was in my, I think my secondfoster home by this time.44800:23:03,414 --> 00:23:06,474And I still would say Iwanted to be a doctor.44900:23:06,804 --> 00:23:08,264But, but I wasn't doing it.45000:23:08,264 --> 00:23:09,864I wasn't putting in the work.45100:23:10,114 --> 00:23:13,514And in my aha moment, I remembermy eighth grade teacher, Mrs.45200:23:13,524 --> 00:23:14,054Hogue.45300:23:14,414 --> 00:23:16,914She would go around the class andshe'd ask people, what do you want45400:23:16,914 --> 00:23:17,874to be when you want to grow up?45500:23:18,234 --> 00:23:19,784And when she got to me, she said, Ms.45600:23:19,804 --> 00:23:21,674Choctaw, what do you want tobe when you want to grow up?45700:23:21,924 --> 00:23:24,614And I said, oh, I want to be adoctor, which is what I'd always said.45800:23:24,954 --> 00:23:27,844And she laughed at me andeverybody in the class laughed.45900:23:28,104 --> 00:23:32,124And, and she said, have youlooked at your grades lately?46000:23:32,804 --> 00:23:36,844You know, and, and she made meso angry, but she was right.46100:23:37,194 --> 00:23:38,974She was right on the money.46200:23:39,284 --> 00:23:44,344I was saying it because I always saidit, but I wasn't walking that talk.46300:23:44,734 --> 00:23:49,324And when, and when she pushed my buttonand when everybody in class pushed46400:23:49,324 --> 00:23:51,374my button, I then sort of woke up.46500:23:51,599 --> 00:23:53,129To some extent, if that makes sense.46600:23:53,129 --> 00:23:56,659And I said, okay, I said, I'm goingto show you, you know, my mother46700:23:56,669 --> 00:23:57,419said I'm going to be a doctor.46800:23:57,499 --> 00:23:59,349I told her blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah.46900:23:59,689 --> 00:24:03,419And then I, I, I switched courses,but just because you say it,47000:24:03,459 --> 00:24:04,589doesn't mean you're going to do it.47100:24:04,619 --> 00:24:06,839You know, you gotta, yougotta walk that talk.47200:24:07,109 --> 00:24:10,863But my point is these stages ofdevelopment are completely normal.47300:24:10,864 --> 00:24:12,094They're completely normal.47400:24:12,354 --> 00:24:17,044Then what I, my philosophy was withmy kids and I tell parents, keep47500:24:17,044 --> 00:24:18,884the lines of communication open.47600:24:19,444 --> 00:24:24,414I don't care whether they're 12years old or 22 years old, keep the47700:24:24,414 --> 00:24:26,904lines of communication over open.47800:24:27,104 --> 00:24:31,074You can disagree with what they'vedone or their choices or their habits.47900:24:31,294 --> 00:24:35,754And you can say that, but alwaysended with, I'm always here for you.48000:24:36,324 --> 00:24:37,454You're a good person.48100:24:37,494 --> 00:24:38,974This too shall pass.48200:24:39,234 --> 00:24:40,384Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.48300:24:40,384 --> 00:24:44,904Always end it on a positive note, butalways keep those lines of communication48400:24:44,914 --> 00:24:50,144open with that child or young adultor teenager, because once that cuts48500:24:50,144 --> 00:24:53,894off, now you're lost because youhave no idea what's going on because48600:24:53,894 --> 00:24:55,254they aren't talking to you anymore.48700:24:55,654 --> 00:25:00,414And normally teenagers normallystart to separate from mom and dad.48800:25:00,714 --> 00:25:02,334They know, and that's whyyou want to have that.48900:25:02,959 --> 00:25:07,989Other person outside of mom and dad who'sa good person who can give them direction.49000:25:08,459 --> 00:25:13,529As always we we thank you for your timeand we thank you for your words of wisdom.49100:25:15,359 --> 00:25:17,879And with that you haveyou have a blessed day.49200:25:18,114 --> 00:25:19,483Likewise.49300:25:19,484 --> 00:25:19,894Thank you for49400:25:19,894 --> 00:25:21,694Mr. Jesse L Hammonds: listeningto this episode of the Healthy,49500:25:21,694 --> 00:25:24,054Wealthy, and Wise podcast with Dr.49600:25:24,084 --> 00:25:24,494William T.49700:25:24,494 --> 00:25:26,644Choctaw, MD, JD.49800:25:27,304 --> 00:25:30,824Be sure to check out other greatepisodes covering areas of health,49900:25:31,044 --> 00:25:33,664wealth, and wisdom at thwwp.50000:25:35,374 --> 00:25:35,884Dr. William T Choctaw: com.50100:25:36,174 --> 00:25:37,614Mr. Jesse L Hammonds: And whileyou're there, be sure to check50200:25:37,664 --> 00:25:41,929out The books, blogs, and otherliterature in your preferred format.50300:25:42,329 --> 00:25:43,469And don't forget to leave a50400:25:43,469 --> 00:25:44,959Dr. William T Choctaw: review, subscribe,50500:25:45,149 --> 00:25:46,969Mr. Jesse L Hammonds: share,and support the podcast.50600:25:47,809 --> 00:25:48,599That's at THWP.50700:25:50,509 --> 00:25:50,569com.50800:25:51,609 --> 00:25:55,319You've been listening to the healthy,wealthy, and wise podcast with Dr.50900:25:55,429 --> 00:25:55,979William T.51000:25:55,979 --> 00:25:57,849Chalk Talk, MD,51100:25:57,849 --> 00:25:59,368Dr. William T Choctaw: JD.