Military Values for the Ministry: Pastor Anthony Dockery, on Teachability, Inclusion, and Finding Common Ground

100:00:01,180 --> 00:00:03,790Jesse L Hammonds: Welcome to the Healthy,Wealthy, and Wise podcast with Dr.200:00:03,790 --> 00:00:04,410William T.300:00:04,410 --> 00:00:09,470Choctaw, MD, JD, where the doctorhelps you unlock your full potential by400:00:09,480 --> 00:00:14,320equipping you with tools and knowledge inthe areas of health, wealth, and wisdom.500:00:14,620 --> 00:00:18,499Anchored in his experience as abusiness executive, a physician600:00:18,529 --> 00:00:23,410surveyor for the joint commission,a former mayor, and over 50 years700:00:23,410 --> 00:00:25,279of experience as a general surgeon.800:00:25,780 --> 00:00:27,960You've got questions, he's got answers.900:00:28,400 --> 00:00:29,279So let's get started.1000:00:29,880 --> 00:00:30,490Here's Dr.1100:00:30,490 --> 00:00:31,020William T.1200:00:31,160 --> 00:00:31,340Choctaw1300:00:31,939 --> 00:00:33,260Dr William T. Choctaw: md kd.1400:00:33,620 --> 00:00:37,820Well, thank you very well, very much,uh, pastor, doctor for joining us today.1500:00:37,820 --> 00:00:42,220We're absolutely delighted tohave you as part of our Health1600:00:42,225 --> 00:00:43,900and Wealth and WISE podcast.1700:00:44,280 --> 00:00:48,750Uh, and, and welcome toour, our Zoom Studio.1800:00:50,070 --> 00:00:50,700Dr. Anthony L. Dockery:Honored to be here.1900:00:53,370 --> 00:00:53,870Dr William T. Choctaw: Great.2000:00:54,280 --> 00:00:58,560So let me start off by saying, well,why don't you sort of tell us who2100:00:58,560 --> 00:01:04,219you are and, and what you do and,and, uh, what, what our audience2200:01:04,219 --> 00:01:05,279Dr. Anthony L. Dockery:would need to know about you.2300:01:05,469 --> 00:01:05,829Excellent.2400:01:06,280 --> 00:01:09,349Well, um, I was born in Orlando, Florida.2500:01:09,815 --> 00:01:12,425And actually raised, raisedin Detroit, Michigan.2600:01:12,634 --> 00:01:17,235So, and so that's why I always say I'mfrom Detroit, because I was an infant2700:01:17,265 --> 00:01:20,125when my parents moved us up to Detroit.2800:01:20,634 --> 00:01:25,895Um, right after high school, I wentinto the United States Air Force.2900:01:26,400 --> 00:01:31,690And after a while I was in the AirForce, went to college, uh, got a3000:01:31,690 --> 00:01:37,339degree, and then started competing toget commissioned, uh, got commissioned,3100:01:37,350 --> 00:01:42,779then started competing for undergraduatepilot slots with the Air Force, uh,3200:01:42,840 --> 00:01:47,749got selected for pilot training, uh,during that journey, um, acknowledged3300:01:47,919 --> 00:01:50,519a call to the ministry with the Lord.3400:01:51,050 --> 00:01:55,720And so I was flying and cameinto the ministry and, um, and3500:01:55,729 --> 00:01:58,429then retired from the military.3600:01:58,830 --> 00:02:01,209Uh, Pastor McCall was retired from St.3700:02:01,220 --> 00:02:06,579Stephen and so, uh, but at that timeI was actually looking to go to the3800:02:06,580 --> 00:02:10,669airlines, I just got hired by AmericanAirlines, had not gone to training3900:02:10,669 --> 00:02:19,055with them, but had just got the, um,congratulatory, uh, letter, and And4000:02:19,055 --> 00:02:23,825so, but the Lord had the plan for,to be the senior pastor here at St.4100:02:23,845 --> 00:02:24,375Stephen.4200:02:24,875 --> 00:02:27,885I had already served as a ministerof the ed and minister of youth.4300:02:28,505 --> 00:02:33,024And, uh, and then, uh, cameon as a senior pastor in 2008.4400:02:33,385 --> 00:02:34,705It's been about 15 years.4500:02:34,915 --> 00:02:37,927And of course, can't leave out my bride.4600:02:37,927 --> 00:02:40,015Got married in, uh, 1990.4700:02:40,565 --> 00:02:41,435Dr William T. Choctaw: Okay, okay.4800:02:41,655 --> 00:02:42,055That's right.4900:02:42,055 --> 00:02:43,275Don't want to leave out your bride.5000:02:44,605 --> 00:02:46,695Let me ask you, what didyou learn from the military?5100:02:46,695 --> 00:02:46,815I5200:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,220Dr. Anthony L. Dockery: Wow,that's a good, broad question.5300:02:50,600 --> 00:02:52,970There's so many lessonsto learn in the military.5400:02:54,020 --> 00:02:56,669Some of the things that I reallyappreciate about the military is how5500:02:56,669 --> 00:03:02,790they are really good at kind of breakingyou down to really learn who you are.5600:03:03,080 --> 00:03:07,140When you are broken, uh, my grandfatherused to say, truly when you are broken,5700:03:07,140 --> 00:03:08,820that might be when you're most open.5800:03:09,340 --> 00:03:13,490And so that's also when, you know,I think I had more capacity to5900:03:13,510 --> 00:03:16,329really learn what I was made ofand what I was capable of doing.6000:03:16,790 --> 00:03:20,409And the military, to me, is one ofthe most empowering organizations6100:03:20,469 --> 00:03:23,240on the planet, uh, for young people.6200:03:23,730 --> 00:03:29,860And so at 18 years old, you're makingdecisions, uh, that are life changing,6300:03:29,860 --> 00:03:32,020life altering, life dictating.6400:03:32,400 --> 00:03:33,160Uh, for people.6500:03:33,160 --> 00:03:38,360And so, uh, that responsibilityreally, uh, was something that I6600:03:38,400 --> 00:03:40,680cherished to, to get that so early.6700:03:41,160 --> 00:03:45,079Uh, I think another thing themilitary really teaches is inclusion.6800:03:45,319 --> 00:03:51,219You know, they're really about allraces, all cultures, both genders,6900:03:51,439 --> 00:03:52,420you know, every, everything.7000:03:52,420 --> 00:03:55,410It's, it's all one bigteam, one happy family.7100:03:55,940 --> 00:04:01,089Uh, trying to find a rhythm,uh, together, uh, especially7200:04:01,149 --> 00:04:03,630in the principle of war, right?7300:04:03,640 --> 00:04:08,359And so, as tensions are going on,it's even more important, uh, that7400:04:08,359 --> 00:04:12,299you can find that common groundand, and learning that we have more,7500:04:12,890 --> 00:04:15,799uh, that is in common and alike.7600:04:16,295 --> 00:04:18,555Then that is not a lie.7700:04:18,724 --> 00:04:19,654So yeah,7800:04:20,005 --> 00:04:20,565Dr William T. Choctaw: excellent.7900:04:20,784 --> 00:04:21,314Excellent.8000:04:21,825 --> 00:04:24,784Um, and I put full disclosure.8100:04:24,784 --> 00:04:27,744I should say, uh, pastordoctor is my pastor.8200:04:27,744 --> 00:04:29,874So I've known him for a number of years.8300:04:30,215 --> 00:04:32,994And as a matter of fact,I've been a member of St.8400:04:32,994 --> 00:04:35,094Stephen's for 45 years.8500:04:35,414 --> 00:04:37,575So I've seen a lot of this happen.8600:04:37,930 --> 00:04:42,500Uh, particularly with your growth and,and, uh, the relationship that you8700:04:42,510 --> 00:04:45,039had with, with, with Pastor McCall.8800:04:45,650 --> 00:04:46,819Tell, tell me about that.8900:04:46,819 --> 00:04:50,659Tell me about how, uh, he sortof passed the torch to you.9000:04:50,939 --> 00:04:54,739He basically treated you as his son,uh, at least that was my perspective.9100:04:55,320 --> 00:05:00,050Tell me about that relationship and howthat relationship also affected, uh,9200:05:00,300 --> 00:05:02,500you in terms of what you're doing now.9300:05:03,064 --> 00:05:03,465What did you9400:05:03,465 --> 00:05:04,314Dr. Anthony L. Dockery: learn from that?9500:05:05,044 --> 00:05:07,594Ooh, yeah, another big,broad question there, Ian.9600:05:07,595 --> 00:05:10,094You taught me so much.9700:05:10,364 --> 00:05:18,375I used to say Pastor McCall is a personthat was a father figure, that was a boss,9800:05:18,865 --> 00:05:22,415that was a friend, that was a mentor.9900:05:23,090 --> 00:05:29,320Um, he, he really checked allof the boxes, uh, confidant, uh,10000:05:29,380 --> 00:05:31,359yeah, he, he really did it all.10100:05:31,620 --> 00:05:36,710And the teaching of Pats McCalland the mentoring, Pats McCall10200:05:36,710 --> 00:05:41,309is one of those from the schoolof, it's more caught than taught.10300:05:41,989 --> 00:05:46,760And so, uh, just hanging around himand he kind of left it up to me.10400:05:47,325 --> 00:05:49,224To see and to glean and to gather.10500:05:49,604 --> 00:05:52,624No, it wasn't a whole lot ofthis is how you should do this.10600:05:52,684 --> 00:05:57,794Watch this It was watch me and you takeit and you should get it if you missed it.10700:05:57,835 --> 00:05:58,314You missed it.10800:05:58,354 --> 00:06:05,890That's too bad, you know but um, hereally was one that administration My10900:06:05,950 --> 00:06:10,180goodness, there's, there's no one onthe planet that I know of, uh, that11000:06:10,210 --> 00:06:14,620understood administration like he doesand, you know, a lot of people don't know11100:06:14,620 --> 00:06:20,520in seminary, uh, they don't spend timeor much time on administration, you know,11200:06:20,530 --> 00:06:23,750when you're going to acquire a building,when you're maintaining a building,11300:06:24,080 --> 00:06:27,180you're trying to sell a building, youknow, when you're dealing with the11400:06:27,180 --> 00:06:31,485city and when you're dealing with, um,legislator and all those type of things,11500:06:31,485 --> 00:06:33,070you know, it's, it's just not covered.11600:06:33,070 --> 00:06:34,579And so, uh, yeah.11700:06:34,900 --> 00:06:37,550And, uh, and QuickBooks and,you know, just simple things.11800:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,320They, they don't go overthat stuff, unfortunately.11900:06:40,760 --> 00:06:42,909Um, and so having someone like Dr.12000:06:42,929 --> 00:06:49,039McCall to give opportunities to shareand to be involved in that, priceless.12100:06:49,469 --> 00:06:51,170Um, and then, you know, St.12200:06:51,179 --> 00:06:51,579Stephen.12300:06:52,000 --> 00:06:53,999It's a progressive church.12400:06:54,219 --> 00:06:56,219He was one that, uh, pulled St.12500:06:56,219 --> 00:06:58,460Stephen into the SouthernBaptist Convention.12600:06:58,995 --> 00:07:04,344Way back in the 70s, uh, when it wasnot a popular decision at all, uh, his12700:07:04,375 --> 00:07:09,085contemporaries really frowned on it, but,uh, he understood the mission and the12800:07:09,154 --> 00:07:14,704vision of the Southern Baptist Conventionand knew that it was a better fit for St.12900:07:14,724 --> 00:07:17,795Stephen than the National BaptistConvention, uh, which would13000:07:17,805 --> 00:07:19,844be predominantly, uh, black.13100:07:19,844 --> 00:07:24,545And so, uh, he's always pioneeredin that way, which then kind of13200:07:24,555 --> 00:07:26,505leads and segues to the transition.13300:07:27,090 --> 00:07:31,379Uh, I was not planning to be in thisposition, like I said, I was just13400:07:31,379 --> 00:07:35,489aspiring to go to the airline, you know,he would be talking about retiring me13500:07:35,489 --> 00:07:39,339and I said, I literally, I said, I'llbe here until you retire, then that's13600:07:39,349 --> 00:07:41,979probably right when we'll be workingout for me to go to the airline.13700:07:42,960 --> 00:07:47,039And, you know, he wasn't reallysaying, but I want you to stay here.13800:07:47,090 --> 00:07:49,830You know, it wasn't that weweren't talking like that,13900:07:49,929 --> 00:07:51,270you know, years and years ago.14000:07:51,725 --> 00:07:55,425It wasn't until the last year ortwo when he was saying, Hey, you14100:07:55,695 --> 00:07:59,095know, this is what I've really beenpraying about no matter, you know,14200:07:59,565 --> 00:08:01,745so yeah, that's how that unfolded.14300:08:01,745 --> 00:08:06,075And then we had that year togetherwhere I served as the executive pastor.14400:08:06,465 --> 00:08:10,299And, uh, and then we had one yearwhere we're both here just really.14500:08:10,660 --> 00:08:16,150Uh, passing the baton, but we alreadyhad, you know, 19 years prior to that to14600:08:16,580 --> 00:08:19,040work and walk in harmony with each other.14700:08:19,500 --> 00:08:24,789I can't tell how much I've learnedand gleaned and experienced,14800:08:24,849 --> 00:08:26,560uh, with him and his tutelage.14900:08:27,395 --> 00:08:29,285Dr William T. Choctaw: Well, you know,I would certainly agree with that, and15000:08:29,515 --> 00:08:31,715I'll share just a real quick story.15100:08:32,054 --> 00:08:36,304I guess everybody has a McCallstory, but I've known him for years,15200:08:36,314 --> 00:08:40,124not personally, but mostly as aphysician and that sort of thing.15300:08:40,464 --> 00:08:45,845Um, when he was studying for hisdoctorate, um, and apparently part15400:08:45,845 --> 00:08:49,745of the requirement was that youhad to have advisors in different15500:08:49,785 --> 00:08:51,575areas outside of the ministry.15600:08:52,055 --> 00:08:53,245who had to sign off.15700:08:53,285 --> 00:09:00,395They would read your, um, uh, your, your,your document, uh, your thesis, and, uh,15800:09:00,435 --> 00:09:02,145either approve or disapprove or whatever.15900:09:02,145 --> 00:09:06,330So he asked me, I had someone who'scompletely outside of, uh, the16000:09:06,340 --> 00:09:11,260ministry as a position, uh, to beone of his, uh, thesis advisors,16100:09:11,270 --> 00:09:15,590and I was honored, obviously, to beasked, and I said, sure, absolutely.16200:09:16,059 --> 00:09:21,729So, he says, and I read it, and, truestory, uh, you know, when, when he and I16300:09:21,770 --> 00:09:26,470met, you know, I said, I, I need to sharesomething with you, and he said, okay.16400:09:26,800 --> 00:09:30,080I said, you know, you know, I, Iread your thesis from, uh, top to16500:09:30,080 --> 00:09:33,570bottom, and I said, to be honestwith you, I don't understand it.16600:09:34,210 --> 00:09:38,444I, I said, I, I, you know, I said, I'mnot a minister, I'm just a lay person.16700:09:38,925 --> 00:09:42,345Um, and I said, youknow, you are my pastor.16800:09:42,405 --> 00:09:46,694And I said, but the way I do things,you've gotta be the best of the best.16900:09:46,995 --> 00:09:47,145Right.17000:09:47,145 --> 00:09:51,705You know, it can't just be thatyou, you, you get a C or c plus17100:09:51,975 --> 00:09:53,985you, you've gotta get the A plus.17200:09:53,985 --> 00:09:55,995Mm-hmm, truth or, soI had him do it again.17300:09:56,260 --> 00:10:02,690I said, I had to do it again andto his credit, to his credit,17400:10:02,990 --> 00:10:05,090you know, he did not complain.17500:10:05,120 --> 00:10:09,840He did not, um, he did not sayanything that was sort of off17600:10:09,840 --> 00:10:11,550the cuff and he said, okay.17700:10:11,980 --> 00:10:14,750And he did it again, all of it.17800:10:15,479 --> 00:10:16,749I reread it.17900:10:16,749 --> 00:10:18,800I said, this is good.18000:10:18,815 --> 00:10:20,584Wow.18100:10:20,665 --> 00:10:25,035And, and, you know, and mostpeople never knew about it,18200:10:25,035 --> 00:10:26,074now everybody knows about it.18300:10:28,494 --> 00:10:29,954Dr. Anthony L. Dockery: Well, that's agood story, that's a really good story.18400:10:30,835 --> 00:10:31,225It18500:10:31,225 --> 00:10:33,410Dr William T. Choctaw: gave me an ideaof the character of the man, is what18600:10:33,410 --> 00:10:34,633Dr. Anthony L. Dockery: I'm trying to say.18700:10:34,633 --> 00:10:35,244Absolutely, absolutely.18800:10:35,325 --> 00:10:38,685And teachability is so important,regardless of where you aspire18900:10:38,685 --> 00:10:42,715to or where you have arrived,that teachability is huge.19000:10:43,195 --> 00:10:43,475Dr William T. Choctaw: Right.19100:10:43,495 --> 00:10:43,825And, and,19200:10:44,695 --> 00:10:44,745Jesse L Hammonds: and19300:10:44,835 --> 00:10:46,535Dr William T. Choctaw: my,my coming in with, you've got19400:10:46,535 --> 00:10:47,905to be the best of the best.19500:10:47,985 --> 00:10:50,155I, you know, all that other stuff is fine.19600:10:50,395 --> 00:10:51,725And, and he said, okay.19700:10:51,995 --> 00:10:56,365And without missing a beat, there wereother people who were also advisors19800:10:56,365 --> 00:10:59,565that I, I don't, I knew some of them,but I, I don't know that many of19900:10:59,565 --> 00:11:03,204them, but, but that always impressedme along with a lot of other things20000:11:03,204 --> 00:11:04,374that have impressed me with him.20100:11:04,644 --> 00:11:09,505But that, that always stuck in my mindin terms of the, uh, his, his, his,20200:11:09,754 --> 00:11:12,144desire to be the best of what he did.20300:11:12,754 --> 00:11:17,305Um, okay, let's, let's, let's sortof, you, you mentioned your bride20400:11:17,864 --> 00:11:19,545and tell me about your bride.20500:11:20,395 --> 00:11:21,405Dr. Anthony L. Dockery:Tell me about my bride.20600:11:21,444 --> 00:11:25,755Yes, uh, Yvonne grewup here in Los Angeles.20700:11:25,785 --> 00:11:30,545She was a product of Californiaand, um, loves the Lord.20800:11:30,545 --> 00:11:35,354I met her, she was already abeliever and we met, uh, I'm at the20900:11:35,354 --> 00:11:37,434church right now and we met not.21000:11:38,060 --> 00:11:42,960Three minutes from here, there used to bea skating rink right over here, and uh,21100:11:42,970 --> 00:11:48,490we met at that skating rink and the way wemet, we were both getting ready to put on21200:11:48,490 --> 00:11:53,760our skates, but right when the session wasbeginning, and I went to put my shoes in21300:11:53,760 --> 00:11:59,040a locker, and when I opened up the locker,there was a bag of Burger King in it.21400:12:00,635 --> 00:12:01,915It's just Burger King food.21500:12:02,194 --> 00:12:05,405And so I opened it up andI'm pulling out Burger King.21600:12:05,694 --> 00:12:07,435And I turned around to one of my friends.21700:12:07,435 --> 00:12:10,115Yeah, I turned around to one of myfriends and joked and I said, Man,21800:12:10,775 --> 00:12:12,395There's the Burger King in the locker.21900:12:12,970 --> 00:12:14,795And, um, and I said that to him.22000:12:14,795 --> 00:12:16,985And then Jovani, she started laughing.22100:12:17,370 --> 00:12:20,795And so when she started laughing, I,of course she caught my attention.22200:12:20,795 --> 00:12:24,004I looked, I was like,oh, , she looks nice, huh?22300:12:24,275 --> 00:12:25,385Alright, she's laughing.22400:12:25,390 --> 00:12:25,890I said, Hmm.22500:12:26,270 --> 00:12:31,175So, uh, later on that evening,uh, I just remembered that face.22600:12:31,175 --> 00:12:34,085Remember her smile, her smileswould grab me and her laughing.22700:12:34,745 --> 00:12:36,785So I asked her if she would skate.22800:12:37,015 --> 00:12:41,925And, uh, she said, yes, they used to havethis session called couple skating, right?22900:12:42,575 --> 00:12:46,165And so I asked her if she would skateduring couple skating, and she said, yes.23000:12:46,594 --> 00:12:52,145And the funny part, how in this is, um, asI was speaking with her, uh, I asked her23100:12:52,184 --> 00:12:53,734right off, I said, so what's your name?23200:12:53,734 --> 00:12:57,605And every time we went around goingaround, we were going by the speaker23300:12:57,795 --> 00:12:59,194and I couldn't hear what she said.23400:12:59,795 --> 00:13:02,945And I could only hear E at the end, E.23500:13:03,344 --> 00:13:05,395And I'm like, What is her name?23600:13:05,395 --> 00:13:08,714So I asked her twice and then I'mlike, should I ask her this third time?23700:13:08,714 --> 00:13:10,354I'm like, no, I'm not asking her again.23800:13:10,765 --> 00:13:12,365So we went on with the night.23900:13:12,754 --> 00:13:13,824The night ends.24000:13:13,884 --> 00:13:15,425I asked her Can I have her phone number?24100:13:15,425 --> 00:13:19,104She says no, I don't give up myphone number, you know this soon.24200:13:19,105 --> 00:13:21,644I'm like, okay Well,how can I see you again?24300:13:21,644 --> 00:13:25,204She said if you keep coming here,you'll see me again So, of course24400:13:25,224 --> 00:13:29,324the next Sunday I was at theskating rink and she wasn't there24500:13:32,754 --> 00:13:36,635So of course I said, I'm going to tryone more Sunday and see if she shows up.24600:13:36,635 --> 00:13:40,884I came back the next Sundayand I still, and I walked up to24700:13:40,885 --> 00:13:42,739her and I didn't say it's like,Hey, it's good to see you again.24800:13:42,739 --> 00:13:47,274And I didn't know her name, but Ijust played it off and we skated24900:13:47,275 --> 00:13:48,935again and I never said her name.25000:13:49,464 --> 00:13:52,805And then I asked her that day, I said,well, can I have your phone number?25100:13:52,805 --> 00:13:54,844She said, yeah, you can havemy, I get her phone number.25200:13:55,290 --> 00:13:57,189And that night, I called her.25300:13:57,400 --> 00:13:58,189I said, Hello?25400:13:58,370 --> 00:14:00,290I said, I gotta be honest with you.25500:14:00,569 --> 00:14:01,840I don't know what your name is.25600:14:01,840 --> 00:14:02,789I don't know.25700:14:02,790 --> 00:14:03,549What's your name?25800:14:03,899 --> 00:14:04,420It's just my name.25900:14:04,600 --> 00:14:04,910You don't know26000:14:04,930 --> 00:14:05,439Dr William T. Choctaw: my name?26100:14:05,580 --> 00:14:06,909It's just26200:14:06,910 --> 00:14:08,439Dr. Anthony L. Dockery: like,I said, every time we're going26300:14:08,439 --> 00:14:10,189around, it was, I couldn't hear.26400:14:10,290 --> 00:14:12,559So yeah, she said, it's Javonni.26500:14:12,559 --> 00:14:15,520Like, I thought it was likeLonnie or Donnie or Shonnie.26600:14:15,640 --> 00:14:16,459I don't know what it was.26700:14:19,390 --> 00:14:19,819Dr William T. Choctaw: That's great.26800:14:20,079 --> 00:14:20,210And26900:14:20,240 --> 00:14:21,340Dr. Anthony L. Dockery:the rest is history.27000:14:21,380 --> 00:14:22,439The rest is history.27100:14:22,439 --> 00:14:23,484The rest is history.27200:14:23,484 --> 00:14:24,127It is.27300:14:24,127 --> 00:14:24,650Dr William T. Choctaw: It's beautiful.27400:14:25,150 --> 00:14:29,960I noticed one of the things, uh, insort of looking over a number of things27500:14:29,960 --> 00:14:33,859that you're involved with, and I'mgoing back to your ministry now, uh,27600:14:35,390 --> 00:14:40,220that, uh, certainly, uh, Pastor McCall,uh, you know, got the church involved27700:14:40,220 --> 00:14:43,490with the Southern Baptist Convention,but I noticed that you've been very27800:14:43,490 --> 00:14:47,829involved also, um, with the SouthernBaptist Convention, taking it to the27900:14:47,829 --> 00:14:49,579next levels and that sort of thing.28000:14:49,579 --> 00:14:53,770And certainly the way things are goingon in the country, uh, that, that must28100:14:53,780 --> 00:14:55,670be fought with a lot of challenges.28200:14:55,670 --> 00:14:59,550What, what are some of the things thatyou've learned, uh, as you've dealt in28300:14:59,569 --> 00:15:03,890the executive, uh, boards of the, um, uh,28400:15:03,939 --> 00:15:05,479Dr. Anthony L. Dockery:Southern Baptist Organization.28500:15:05,620 --> 00:15:06,770Yeah, another good question.28600:15:07,310 --> 00:15:12,600You know, um, and you've been on manyboards as well, you know, we're around28700:15:12,650 --> 00:15:18,565different people, whether It is thosethat come and, uh, help us with our28800:15:18,565 --> 00:15:25,305lawn, or they come and help us with ourroughage and rummage and everything else.28900:15:25,384 --> 00:15:31,635People that help draw blood, or a doctor,or a lawyer, minister, or whatever.29000:15:32,170 --> 00:15:34,730You know, that common thread,that common denominator leaks29100:15:34,810 --> 00:15:36,830out that people are people.29200:15:37,760 --> 00:15:43,950And that's what I see more than anything,even at the executive leadership levels29300:15:44,009 --> 00:15:45,250in the Southern Baptist Convention.29400:15:45,259 --> 00:15:49,194You know, sometimes You think, well, thiswas going to be a little different, right?29500:15:49,194 --> 00:15:52,625I can remember thinking, well, youknow, if I learned this skill, get29600:15:52,625 --> 00:15:54,314around this group, they're goingto be a little bit different.29700:15:54,585 --> 00:15:57,274Then you think, Oh, when I getaround this group, Oh, they're29800:15:57,274 --> 00:15:58,504going to be a little bit different.29900:16:01,084 --> 00:16:03,204Find out it's just all people.30000:16:03,204 --> 00:16:06,639And I think I've had the samething, even thinking with.30100:16:07,170 --> 00:16:09,859You know, a whole lot of pastorsget together planning this and, you30200:16:09,860 --> 00:16:14,979know, there's 14, uh, what was it,50, 000 churches, 14 million people30300:16:14,979 --> 00:16:16,349in Southern Baptist Convention.30400:16:16,440 --> 00:16:19,360Oh yes, this, this is goingto be different, right?30500:16:20,050 --> 00:16:20,929It's not different.30600:16:20,929 --> 00:16:26,100It's still dealing with people thatare fraught with brokenness, right?30700:16:26,330 --> 00:16:28,820And, and so that becomes a challenge.30800:16:28,820 --> 00:16:30,180And so it just looks the same.30900:16:30,180 --> 00:16:31,120It smells the same.31000:16:31,120 --> 00:16:32,090It tastes the same.31100:16:32,090 --> 00:16:32,700It is the same.31200:16:33,050 --> 00:16:36,419Um, and so, but it's ablessing to be there.31300:16:36,745 --> 00:16:41,205Uh, and have a seat at the table, uh,to have a voice and be a part of the31400:16:41,215 --> 00:16:46,214steering mechanism for the institutionas it, you know, it benefits, uh, St.31500:16:46,225 --> 00:16:49,875Stephen, of course, and it benefitsthe kingdom and it benefits SBC.31600:16:51,165 --> 00:16:56,455Uh, and you know, it's no secret thatSBC has been predominantly Caucasian31700:16:56,655 --> 00:16:58,555for, you know, since its inception.31800:16:58,925 --> 00:17:04,324And so, having inclusion is stilla major task and a major piece31900:17:04,334 --> 00:17:08,364for them, but it's, it's actuallyhappening now and that's, that's huge.32000:17:08,584 --> 00:17:11,845Uh, there are a lot of othersensitive issues that are not32100:17:11,845 --> 00:17:15,524only spiritual, but they're alsopolitical and they're also social.32200:17:16,010 --> 00:17:22,240You know, like immigration, or, or dealingwith racial social issues, or dealing32300:17:22,240 --> 00:17:27,430with women in ministry and their roleand what they can or cannot do, um, you32400:17:27,430 --> 00:17:33,330know, uh, even legal issues of pastorsand people that have broken the law.32500:17:34,040 --> 00:17:37,290how they've treated people verysimilar to what happened with, uh,32600:17:37,390 --> 00:17:42,190the Catholic priests and sexual abuseand, you know, child molestation.32700:17:42,209 --> 00:17:45,470Oh, I mean, it's just, it'sjust the full gamut is there.32800:17:45,470 --> 00:17:47,400So again, I go back to where I started.32900:17:47,400 --> 00:17:51,739It's people gone people as we'vehad in the message here at St.33000:17:52,490 --> 00:17:52,950What, what do33100:17:52,960 --> 00:17:53,579Dr William T. Choctaw: you think?33200:17:53,629 --> 00:17:57,659And, and this is my last SouthernBaptist question, but what, what, what33300:17:57,659 --> 00:18:03,440do you think is your What do you bringto the table, um, that can help them33400:18:03,470 --> 00:18:07,770in your front, from your perspective,in terms of where they are now?33500:18:08,010 --> 00:18:09,290What do you try to bring to the33600:18:09,290 --> 00:18:10,680Dr. Anthony L. Dockery: table with that?33700:18:11,239 --> 00:18:12,509Yeah, another good question.33800:18:12,850 --> 00:18:17,049I think what, what I have beenable to bring in most places33900:18:17,050 --> 00:18:20,380that I am, uh, blessed to serve.34000:18:20,685 --> 00:18:26,635Is toleration and just that gift oftrying to be a peacemaker, uh, trying34100:18:26,635 --> 00:18:30,395to, trying to bring the two or thethree or the four parts together to34200:18:30,465 --> 00:18:37,194find where there is harmony, where thereis some common ground, uh, to kind of34300:18:37,224 --> 00:18:43,584bring down some of the edginess and thetension, uh, that for sure, and then just34400:18:43,615 --> 00:18:46,195praying for godly wisdom in direction.34500:18:46,855 --> 00:18:51,515You know, uh, as, as we're engagingin this more, learning a lot of people34600:18:51,515 --> 00:18:56,205make decisions from an emotionalplace, uh, from a world view that isn't34700:18:56,205 --> 00:19:01,205necessarily informed by a biblical view,uh, and, you know, just really trying34800:19:01,205 --> 00:19:05,470to give those subtle reminders thatThis is bigger than all of us, right?34900:19:05,940 --> 00:19:09,629All of us, we gotta put our ownpersonal agendas on the back burner.35000:19:09,960 --> 00:19:14,720And you would think that simple and thatthat would be there, but unfortunately,35100:19:15,070 --> 00:19:19,350uh, people get so passionate and sofixated on their own thing that they start35200:19:19,449 --> 00:19:22,100missing or really do miss the main thing.35300:19:22,910 --> 00:19:26,860So, um, and just helpingpeople to hear one another.35400:19:27,340 --> 00:19:27,690Yeah.35500:19:28,040 --> 00:19:31,210You know, uh, and just sharingsimple facts like this.35600:19:31,239 --> 00:19:35,740Like, Uh, in our marriage, or in ourfriendships, or with our neighbor,35700:19:36,249 --> 00:19:42,120people talk from a position of facts andfeelings, and when you are listening, you35800:19:42,120 --> 00:19:45,799should listen to whether or not they'resharing a fact, or if they're sharing35900:19:45,799 --> 00:19:50,620a feeling, and if they're sharing afact, you should answer or reply with a36000:19:50,620 --> 00:19:54,915fact, but if they're sharing a feeling,you should You shouldn't answer with36100:19:54,915 --> 00:19:56,615a fact, you should answer with a feel.36200:19:56,935 --> 00:20:01,685And just those simple things that Ithink kind of fly over people's heads36300:20:01,895 --> 00:20:03,605in marriage and things like that.36400:20:03,605 --> 00:20:06,645When a wife says she doesn'thave anything to wear, uh,36500:20:06,784 --> 00:20:08,624that's not really a fact, right?36600:20:08,705 --> 00:20:10,965Because fact is, the closet's full.36700:20:11,415 --> 00:20:12,295Right, right.36800:20:12,535 --> 00:20:15,675But what she's really saying is, Idon't feel like there's anything in36900:20:15,675 --> 00:20:16,595here that I want to put onto there.37000:20:17,760 --> 00:20:18,020Yes.37100:20:18,260 --> 00:20:22,560And so, us answering with, the factis, you got, you got clothes in37200:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,280this closet, you got clothes in thatcloset, you got clothes in this closet.37300:20:25,639 --> 00:20:27,720Yeah, that's, that's not theanswer you're looking for.37400:20:27,750 --> 00:20:29,999The answer you're looking for, well,what's, what's going on with you today?37500:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,090I, I can sense that you'renot feeling alright.37600:20:32,090 --> 00:20:34,300Well, then I give a feeling for a feeling.37700:20:34,889 --> 00:20:35,389Yes.37800:20:35,790 --> 00:20:36,459So it helps.37900:20:36,860 --> 00:20:37,189Yeah.38000:20:37,270 --> 00:20:37,749Good question.38100:20:38,310 --> 00:20:40,640Dr William T. Choctaw: I think oneof the things that, that you have,38200:20:41,035 --> 00:20:44,985One of the ways that you have grown,and as an observer, I've watched38300:20:45,235 --> 00:20:52,035this over a number of years, is yourability to work with others, um, that,38400:20:52,095 --> 00:20:55,004that embraces a diversity approach.38500:20:55,274 --> 00:20:58,465And I don't mean diversity justin terms of race and that, I38600:20:58,465 --> 00:20:59,894mean diversity total, total.38700:21:00,375 --> 00:21:05,805Um, um, and one of the things I've alwaysbelieved that everything is a relationship38800:21:05,815 --> 00:21:09,505and, you know, mutual respect,mutual trust and good communication.38900:21:09,955 --> 00:21:13,015One of the things thatI have noticed in St.39000:21:13,015 --> 00:21:18,155Stephen's, the church that you pastor,that you actually have, uh, a, a39100:21:18,205 --> 00:21:21,625combination of cultures in the church.39200:21:21,625 --> 00:21:28,314Uh, you have a, a Spanish languageministry that's mixed in with, with39300:21:28,315 --> 00:21:31,035a basic Southern Baptist ministry.39400:21:31,415 --> 00:21:36,365Uh, you're a predominantly AfricanAmerican church that's in a neighborhood39500:21:36,675 --> 00:21:38,985or a city that's predominantly Hispanic.39600:21:39,364 --> 00:21:40,605You have a food bank.39700:21:40,955 --> 00:21:43,715that serves a large percentage of Asians.39800:21:44,215 --> 00:21:51,074So, tell me what it is that youdo that allows you to emphasize39900:21:51,115 --> 00:21:55,205or to bring out the strengthof that, of those diversities.40000:21:55,555 --> 00:21:58,075A lot of people say, oh my goodness,we can't do this, you know.40100:21:58,310 --> 00:21:59,010Blah, blah, blah.40200:21:59,179 --> 00:22:01,679But you, you appear to thrive as a leader.40300:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,820I mean, as a leader in this particularenvironment, what, what, what do you use?40400:22:05,899 --> 00:22:07,480How does that work for you?40500:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,690What do you use to keep everybodymoving in the same direction,40600:22:10,730 --> 00:22:11,510even though they're very40700:22:11,569 --> 00:22:11,879Dr. Anthony L. Dockery: diverse?40800:22:13,504 --> 00:22:15,014Yeah, another another good question.40900:22:15,014 --> 00:22:19,165And like I said at the beginning, Ithink that really goes back from the41000:22:19,165 --> 00:22:25,405military and seeing how they're sodiverse and understanding gifts and41100:22:25,405 --> 00:22:28,185talents and the strength and diversity.41200:22:28,694 --> 00:22:31,964Um, and, and then kindof learning culture.41300:22:31,964 --> 00:22:36,455So another thing the military does isyou, you travel to different places41400:22:36,535 --> 00:22:38,025and you have different exposure.41500:22:38,405 --> 00:22:40,035And you learn how to connect.41600:22:40,075 --> 00:22:43,975You learn the simple thingsthat help, uh, to build bridges.41700:22:44,335 --> 00:22:47,545And, uh, you also learn thethings that can be a tad bit41800:22:47,605 --> 00:22:50,075offensive and, and put off people.41900:22:50,564 --> 00:22:55,834And so, just those simple things,you know, now, if you hit those major42000:22:55,834 --> 00:23:00,324continents, if you've been to Europe,been to China, and, of course, you've42100:23:00,355 --> 00:23:04,024been down under, and you've been tosome of these major places, it gets42200:23:04,024 --> 00:23:10,545to the place where you can kind ofConnect on some level with almost anyone42300:23:10,795 --> 00:23:13,204or any culture that you intersect.42400:23:13,705 --> 00:23:18,405And as soon as that happens, thenyou have almost like you need an42500:23:18,445 --> 00:23:22,265asset that's willing to kind of workwith you because they know you're42600:23:22,265 --> 00:23:26,625sensitive to their culture, or you'resensitive to their race, or you're42700:23:26,795 --> 00:23:31,504sensitive to their worldview, oryou're sensitive to their purpose and42800:23:31,504 --> 00:23:33,095what they're trying to accomplish.42900:23:33,825 --> 00:23:38,495And once people know that you careabout what they care about, yeah, it's43000:23:38,735 --> 00:23:42,064easy because most of us, we just tryto push and promote what we care about.43100:23:43,220 --> 00:23:48,400Just take that moment to say, you know,so in Chinese culture, you know, matter43200:23:48,400 --> 00:23:55,729of fact, I'll just give it, um, I was at aCBU graduation on Wednesday and when I was43300:23:55,729 --> 00:24:00,289at the graduation I was sitting next toa guy that I know is Chinese, Richard Yu,43400:24:00,289 --> 00:24:05,230I've known him a long time, and I askedhim, and I've asked many cultures this43500:24:05,280 --> 00:24:10,880over the years, and races, I said, hey,um, what's the best way you would want to.43600:24:11,324 --> 00:24:17,544Have someone ask you, what, what is yourcountry of origin, or what is your native43700:24:17,834 --> 00:24:22,024tongue, or what is your nationality, youknow, because you can ask that in the43800:24:22,044 --> 00:24:24,735United States and people say, America,you know, I'm American, and you get a43900:24:24,735 --> 00:24:29,205little offended, you know, even thoughthey look like they're from Africa, or44000:24:29,205 --> 00:24:32,334they sound like they're from Africa, orthey sound like they're from Germany,44100:24:32,334 --> 00:24:33,594or they sound, you know, whatever.44200:24:33,985 --> 00:24:39,480Um, So I asked him, what's the bestway to, and my point is, simple things44300:24:39,480 --> 00:24:43,730like that, where once you've builta little bit of relationship, learn44400:24:43,730 --> 00:24:49,170how to build that bridge even betterby asking those questions and being44500:24:49,170 --> 00:24:52,750sensitive to the fact that, you know,there are things that are off putting.44600:24:52,989 --> 00:24:57,760And I know I still need to learn howto connect even better with people.44700:24:58,380 --> 00:25:02,690And then once you, once you can getthose people all together in a room, then44800:25:02,690 --> 00:25:04,990it's trying to find that common goal.44900:25:05,514 --> 00:25:07,205Uh, for, like here at St.45000:25:07,205 --> 00:25:11,425Stephen's, for ministry or inservant's arms, uh, to meet needs in45100:25:11,425 --> 00:25:17,074the community, you know, which, or inSBC, you know, to meet needs globally.45200:25:17,635 --> 00:25:19,375uh, as a global institution.45300:25:19,655 --> 00:25:21,735So, yeah, I45400:25:21,735 --> 00:25:25,325Dr William T. Choctaw: know when I usedto have talks about, uh, multicultural45500:25:25,325 --> 00:25:29,724relationships in healthcare, um, Iused to always use the phrase that45600:25:29,745 --> 00:25:31,635respect transcends all cultures.45700:25:32,115 --> 00:25:33,954You don't have to be an expert.45800:25:34,155 --> 00:25:37,534Uh, you know, I'm certainly notan expert, but, but be respectful.45900:25:37,535 --> 00:25:41,695And I would use as a clear example, youknow, when you walk into the room, you46000:25:41,695 --> 00:25:47,254know, introduce yourself, shake somebody'shand, shake everybody's hand in the room.46100:25:47,870 --> 00:25:50,830And you would be amazed that asa physician, if you do that, even46200:25:50,830 --> 00:25:55,860including the children, how immediatelythey say, Oh, this, this doctor is46300:25:55,860 --> 00:25:59,210a little different because nobody'sever shaken my wife's hand or my46400:25:59,210 --> 00:26:03,219husband's hand or whatever, but justbasic stuff that our parents taught46500:26:03,220 --> 00:26:06,000us, you know, let's just be respectful.46600:26:07,095 --> 00:26:12,225And, uh, and if you start there, uh,and then just sort of build on that, uh,46700:26:12,285 --> 00:26:16,524but, but I think it's, it's a challengeis, and I think certainly society is46800:26:16,524 --> 00:26:20,135making it more and more challenging,but I think it's important to have46900:26:20,135 --> 00:26:24,785leaders like yourself, uh, to get whodemonstrate that and who implement47000:26:24,795 --> 00:26:28,855that, uh, to keep it balanced andkeep us moving in the right direction.47100:26:29,145 --> 00:26:30,195Our diversity is.47200:26:31,375 --> 00:26:38,014uh, I think is Christlike, uh, from, uh,all the other people that he dealt with47300:26:38,024 --> 00:26:43,345that were not maybe necessary from hiscity or his country, uh, but, but, uh,47400:26:43,375 --> 00:26:45,504but you just treat people with respect.47500:26:46,074 --> 00:26:46,864Uh, so.47600:26:47,515 --> 00:26:48,525Let me ask you this.47700:26:48,525 --> 00:26:53,925Um, what, what are some of the, if,if you had to give a, if you had47800:26:53,925 --> 00:26:56,695to give a masterclass, uh, to, uh,47900:26:57,535 --> 00:26:59,964Dr. Anthony L. Dockery: to, Ican't do that, I can't do that.48000:27:00,045 --> 00:27:00,235Dr.48100:27:00,385 --> 00:27:01,394Choctaw, he did the masterclass.48200:27:02,494 --> 00:27:03,424Dr William T. Choctaw: No, no, no, no, no.48300:27:03,424 --> 00:27:12,465I say to, um, 30, 20 year olds, um, andmen and women, Uh, who were about to go48400:27:12,465 --> 00:27:16,705out and, and do different parts of thecountry, different parts of the world.48500:27:16,895 --> 00:27:20,604What, what would be some of the thingsthat you would share with them, uh, in48600:27:20,614 --> 00:27:22,764terms of how they can be effective and,48700:27:23,024 --> 00:27:24,684Dr. Anthony L. Dockery: andmake the world a better place?48800:27:24,824 --> 00:27:29,974Yeah, I mean, the, the main thing iswe already said it earlier and, um, and48900:27:29,974 --> 00:27:31,294that's like you talked about with Dr.49000:27:31,374 --> 00:27:33,774McCall, be teachable, right?49100:27:33,775 --> 00:27:37,840That's, that's, it's so importantto Not feel like you know it all.49200:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,600You know, you come out of highschool and you think, man, I got49300:27:40,600 --> 00:27:41,889my diploma, I know everything.49400:27:42,420 --> 00:27:42,710Right?49500:27:42,750 --> 00:27:46,890You come out of the four year degree, andyou got that diploma, I know everything.49600:27:47,549 --> 00:27:50,859You graduate in the military orwhatever the case, I know everything.49700:27:51,039 --> 00:27:54,599You know, we get to these stages andwe just, I know it all, I know it all.49800:27:55,189 --> 00:27:59,560Teachability is so important,um, that you don't know it all.49900:28:00,145 --> 00:28:04,845And then the next piece, which isexactly what you said, is, uh, to have50000:28:04,875 --> 00:28:07,905that respect for whoever is before you.50100:28:08,475 --> 00:28:10,825Uh, even though they don't respect you.50200:28:11,284 --> 00:28:11,614Right.50300:28:11,965 --> 00:28:12,935Respect them.50400:28:13,305 --> 00:28:16,594There's a battle right now betweengenerations of who's gonna give50500:28:16,594 --> 00:28:19,875the respect, and who demandsrespect, and who isn't respected.50600:28:20,225 --> 00:28:23,865And I'm like, if you just giveit, eventually it'll work out.50700:28:24,795 --> 00:28:27,835Just give the respect, anddon't worry about if you get50800:28:27,835 --> 00:28:29,655it back, uh, for young people.50900:28:30,129 --> 00:28:32,330And then preparation, right?51000:28:32,330 --> 00:28:37,389If you're going to go and do something,whatever that is, then prepare.51100:28:37,629 --> 00:28:40,869And then once you prepare, likeyou said, again, I can't, you're,51200:28:40,869 --> 00:28:42,370you're giving the perfect examples.51300:28:42,760 --> 00:28:46,560Don't go for the C plus anddon't go for the B minus, right?51400:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,270Go for the A plus, go for the 100, right?51500:28:50,620 --> 00:28:53,560Always try to put your very best.51600:28:54,135 --> 00:28:55,515effort out there.51700:28:55,845 --> 00:28:59,305And this is regardless if it's somethingyou're passionate about or not.51800:28:59,615 --> 00:29:02,574Every opportunity is an interview.51900:29:03,205 --> 00:29:06,385So always dress for success.52000:29:06,524 --> 00:29:07,245Yes.52100:29:07,395 --> 00:29:07,835Always.52200:29:07,905 --> 00:29:10,264Because you never know who's watching.52300:29:10,745 --> 00:29:13,425And so I'm not just talkingabout external dress.52400:29:13,684 --> 00:29:13,964Yes.52500:29:14,285 --> 00:29:16,794It's how you present every part of you.52600:29:17,075 --> 00:29:18,705Knowing there's people.52700:29:18,764 --> 00:29:22,145It's because a lot of timesit's You're not even speaking or52800:29:22,145 --> 00:29:24,905doing something for the peopleyou see and the people you know.52900:29:25,625 --> 00:29:28,705A lot of times you're doing things forthe people you don't see and the people53000:29:28,764 --> 00:29:33,535you don't know, that if you do it right,eventually you will know and you will53100:29:33,535 --> 00:29:36,804be connected with to push whateveryou're trying to bring even further.53200:29:37,245 --> 00:29:38,054But remembering that.53300:29:38,504 --> 00:29:42,064And, you know, as young people, you know,we're typically just too short sighted.53400:29:42,064 --> 00:29:46,274So, that's what I mainly try toconvey to them is, uh, to own it.53500:29:46,524 --> 00:29:46,875Excellent.53600:29:47,750 --> 00:29:50,340Dr William T. Choctaw: So, isthere anything else that you53700:29:50,340 --> 00:29:51,800would want to leave with us?53800:29:51,800 --> 00:29:55,340You know, we want to be respectful of yourtime and we're very grateful that you've53900:29:55,810 --> 00:30:01,410been gracious enough to, to, to sharesome of your words of wisdom, uh, with us.54000:30:01,460 --> 00:30:06,109Um, I, I am very optimisticabout life in the world.54100:30:06,139 --> 00:30:09,090I think, uh, there are a lot ofgood people like yourself and54200:30:09,120 --> 00:30:10,780others who are out there every day.54300:30:11,295 --> 00:30:12,345fighting the battles.54400:30:12,375 --> 00:30:17,235And I think that that's what will,will, will make, um, um, uh, the good54500:30:17,865 --> 00:30:20,104win out in, in the final analysis.54600:30:20,405 --> 00:30:23,634But any, any, anything you wantto leave us with before we,54700:30:23,634 --> 00:30:24,635Dr. Anthony L. Dockery: we let you go?54800:30:24,804 --> 00:30:25,384Yes, sir.54900:30:25,384 --> 00:30:26,805I'll leave you with two things.55000:30:26,884 --> 00:30:29,194And again, I appreciate you inviting me.55100:30:29,194 --> 00:30:30,315It's been an honor.55200:30:30,885 --> 00:30:36,144Excellent questions that are insightful,thought provoking, which is always good.55300:30:36,145 --> 00:30:39,625So grateful for you, sir, and what youhave done and what you have accomplished.55400:30:39,965 --> 00:30:45,215On so many levels, uh, reaching thepinnacle of the medical profession, being55500:30:45,215 --> 00:30:52,254a surgeon, being a full on lawyer as well,a politician, I mean, you've done it all.55600:30:52,345 --> 00:30:56,754And to come from where you have come, I'msure you put your testimony out there, uh,55700:30:56,805 --> 00:31:01,905it truly has been a beacon light for allof us, and so I'm grateful to you as well.55800:31:02,465 --> 00:31:10,315Um, but the two things I would close withis one, is life in general, spiritual,55900:31:10,455 --> 00:31:15,095physical, mental, doesn't matter,it's about discipline and balance.56000:31:15,335 --> 00:31:19,314So you have to have discipline to justsit here on this Zoom call, and the people56100:31:19,315 --> 00:31:23,144that are listening have to have disciplinejust to sit there and take it all in.56200:31:23,505 --> 00:31:26,875But then, you gotta have balancewith whatever your disciplines are.56300:31:27,460 --> 00:31:27,790Right?56400:31:28,010 --> 00:31:32,040You want to be teachable, but atthe same time, you don't want to,56500:31:32,370 --> 00:31:36,090you know, feel like I sit in theclassroom for the rest of my life56600:31:36,090 --> 00:31:38,240and be a professional student, right?56700:31:38,309 --> 00:31:40,770You want to be confident, butyou don't want to be arrogant.56800:31:41,670 --> 00:31:45,569So there's, life isn't just aboutthe disciplines, it's also about56900:31:45,580 --> 00:31:47,860balancing the parts in between.57000:31:48,260 --> 00:31:51,090And then it's about balancingour blessings, which is57100:31:51,090 --> 00:31:52,390time, talent, and treasure.57200:31:52,900 --> 00:31:54,670That I can't spend all my money.57300:31:55,250 --> 00:31:56,790But I can't not spend any money.57400:31:57,110 --> 00:32:01,610I can't burn the candle that both endswith my life, but I gotta burn the candle.57500:32:02,280 --> 00:32:02,610Right.57600:32:03,180 --> 00:32:07,849And so, it's having balance with mydisciplines, and understanding if I57700:32:07,850 --> 00:32:12,379have discipline in one area of my life,and that could be eating, then I can57800:32:12,379 --> 00:32:16,710also have discipline in what I say,and when I say it, and how I say it.57900:32:16,710 --> 00:32:20,380Because once I know I have the disciplinemuscle, all I have to do is spread58000:32:20,380 --> 00:32:22,030it through the totality of my life.58100:32:22,220 --> 00:32:24,400And then balance those.58200:32:24,785 --> 00:32:29,705Uh, with God's help, so disciplineand balance, and then the last thing58300:32:29,705 --> 00:32:34,164is what Christ said so clearly, Ididn't come to this world, uh, to58400:32:34,175 --> 00:32:36,294be served, but I came to serve.58500:32:36,935 --> 00:32:38,385And that's why St.58600:32:38,385 --> 00:32:43,105Stephen, our mission and ourvision, all is tied up in be58700:32:43,115 --> 00:32:45,435God's servant, in God's service.58800:32:46,050 --> 00:32:46,940serving God's people.58900:32:47,390 --> 00:32:50,720And so the common denominatorin there is serve.59000:32:50,950 --> 00:32:54,490And do your very best to serve God.59100:32:54,919 --> 00:32:57,270Do your very best if you're in alocal church or local community,59200:32:57,270 --> 00:33:01,560serve the church and do your verybest to serve your community.59300:33:02,029 --> 00:33:06,009And of course, serve your family.59400:33:06,009 --> 00:33:08,860That's what I closed out with,share with people, be your best59500:33:08,870 --> 00:33:10,560self, put forth your best effort.59600:33:11,765 --> 00:33:14,535God has given you gifts,talents, and abilities.59700:33:14,745 --> 00:33:19,345Make sure that you wring itout for everything it is and59800:33:19,355 --> 00:33:21,275give the very best you can.59900:33:21,415 --> 00:33:23,845Don't sham and don't half step.60000:33:24,434 --> 00:33:25,035There's too much going60100:33:25,314 --> 00:33:25,414Dr William T. Choctaw: on.60200:33:25,655 --> 00:33:26,345Exactly.60300:33:26,825 --> 00:33:28,765Thank you very much Pastor Dockery.60400:33:28,794 --> 00:33:32,735May God continue to bless andkeep you, um, and keep you60500:33:32,815 --> 00:33:34,705with us for a very long time.60600:33:35,650 --> 00:33:36,880Dr. Anthony L. Dockery:Well, thank you as well.60700:33:36,920 --> 00:33:37,300Thank you.60800:33:37,560 --> 00:33:37,880All right.60900:33:38,090 --> 00:33:38,960And Brother Hatch.61000:33:38,960 --> 00:33:40,090sir.61100:33:40,090 --> 00:33:41,219So,61200:33:41,219 --> 00:33:45,790Dr William T. Choctaw: to all ofyou listening, have a wonderful day.61300:33:46,000 --> 00:33:46,770God bless.61400:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,140Okay, Jesse, that's a wrap.61500:33:49,469 --> 00:33:50,270That's a wrap.61600:33:50,370 --> 00:33:50,980We're out.61700:33:52,510 --> 00:33:52,740Thank you.61800:33:54,690 --> 00:33:55,030Thank you.61900:33:55,030 --> 00:33:55,390Thank you.62000:33:55,390 --> 00:33:55,920Thank you.62100:33:55,920 --> 00:33:58,680That was very good.62200:33:58,720 --> 00:33:59,540I enjoyed that.62300:33:59,700 --> 00:34:02,140I'm part of God's sister doctorate.62400:34:04,190 --> 00:34:04,450Dr. Anthony L. Dockery: Yeah.62500:34:04,690 --> 00:34:06,970Her skating prowess.62600:34:07,490 --> 00:34:07,880That's62700:34:08,230 --> 00:34:08,440Dr William T. Choctaw: right.62800:34:10,420 --> 00:34:15,660One of the reasons I'll let you go Whenwe started this, it sort of dawned on me62900:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,600that in effect This is sort of a legacy.63000:34:19,910 --> 00:34:21,360That's really what this is.63100:34:21,360 --> 00:34:23,610I mean, you can write a book,you can write an autobiography,63200:34:23,610 --> 00:34:25,080you can do all that, that's fine.63300:34:25,679 --> 00:34:29,429But you can also do apodcast, and podcasts in63400:34:29,429 --> 00:34:30,140cyberspace, and that's forever.63500:34:30,360 --> 00:34:30,750Dr. Anthony L. Dockery: That's forever.63600:34:30,759 --> 00:34:31,489Evergreen.63700:34:34,235 --> 00:34:36,925Dr William T. Choctaw: I think justhaving it out there, you know, for63800:34:36,925 --> 00:34:39,925people to listen to whenever theywant it, for you to listen to over63900:34:39,925 --> 00:34:45,255and over again, whatever you want,I think is a blessing for all of us.64000:34:45,535 --> 00:34:50,395So thank you, thank you, thank youso much for being willing to take64100:34:50,444 --> 00:34:53,965time out of your business scheduleand to speak to our audience.64200:34:53,965 --> 00:34:58,065And I think we're all blessed,just from hearing your story.64300:34:58,325 --> 00:35:00,254Because we all learnthings that we don't know.64400:35:00,430 --> 00:35:00,60010064500:35:00,600 --> 00:35:01,760Dr. Anthony L. Dockery: percent Yes, sir.64600:35:01,880 --> 00:35:02,550I'm grateful.64700:35:02,560 --> 00:35:06,020I'm grateful that you're puttingyourself out there to share all that64800:35:06,020 --> 00:35:07,920you've learned over the years as well.64900:35:08,500 --> 00:35:11,689And again, like you said before,a lot of people don't hear65000:35:11,710 --> 00:35:13,470things from a doctor, right?65100:35:13,470 --> 00:35:17,829You get about a minute and a halfin the doctor's office as they're65200:35:17,829 --> 00:35:19,480splitting off to the next person.65300:35:19,970 --> 00:35:21,200And that's it.65400:35:21,200 --> 00:35:26,679So to have you sitting on a podcastfor 30 minutes or an hour or the65500:35:26,680 --> 00:35:32,405masterclass for an hour, two hours, Andhaving access to an MD and the world65600:35:32,405 --> 00:35:34,015experiences you've had and other things.65700:35:34,515 --> 00:35:36,575It's priceless that you'rewilling to avail yourself.65800:35:36,725 --> 00:35:38,515So you're an epitome of whatI was just talking about.65900:35:38,775 --> 00:35:40,375God serving in God's service,serving God's people.66000:35:41,195 --> 00:35:41,505Right?66100:35:41,575 --> 00:35:43,194And achieving excellence.66200:35:43,485 --> 00:35:44,104All of those things.66300:35:44,754 --> 00:35:46,664Pastor, you know, at the beginning66400:35:47,115 --> 00:35:49,224Dr William T. Choctaw: Uh, when,and when he came up with the, the66500:35:49,225 --> 00:35:54,575masterclass concept with the ReverendCollins and I overheard that, that was66600:35:54,575 --> 00:35:58,525Jesse L Hammonds: my thought rightthere, that, hey, somebody else needs to66700:35:58,525 --> 00:36:03,665Dr William T. Choctaw: hear this, youknow, and unless they're at the church66800:36:03,684 --> 00:36:07,065Jesse L Hammonds: and with the code toget into the zoom call and all that, or,66900:36:07,675 --> 00:36:12,575uh, or come to the class, it's going tostay within the four walls and there,67000:36:12,665 --> 00:36:14,405there's gotta be a way to get that out.67100:36:15,725 --> 00:36:16,645And so,67200:36:16,865 --> 00:36:20,645Dr William T. Choctaw: you know, that'show a lot of this came to pass as well.67300:36:21,125 --> 00:36:24,544Jesse L Hammonds: And, um, and some,um, part of the questions I was67400:36:24,544 --> 00:36:25,605Dr William T. Choctaw: going to ask you.67500:36:26,075 --> 00:36:28,185Um, this is, you know,67600:36:28,285 --> 00:36:32,545Jesse L Hammonds: you know, off, offcamera, whatever, but, uh, was, uh, as67700:36:32,545 --> 00:36:37,764it relates to coming out of that, uh,the pandemic, um, you know, how did67800:36:37,765 --> 00:36:41,314that feel, you know, I mean, what weresome of the challenges there and then67900:36:41,654 --> 00:36:44,485Dr William T. Choctaw: what wassome of the pleasant surprises,68000:36:44,704 --> 00:36:51,105especially as related to, uh, thedigital, you know, uh, landscape68100:36:51,575 --> 00:36:56,010Jesse L Hammonds: and, and how, howwe have had to, you know, Adapt to,68200:36:56,590 --> 00:36:58,240Dr William T. Choctaw: youknow, pandemic and post68300:36:58,240 --> 00:36:58,800Dr. Anthony L. Dockery: pandemic.68400:36:58,920 --> 00:37:00,640Yeah, it was huge.68500:37:00,690 --> 00:37:05,209I think the best day was when wefinally had people come back in68600:37:05,209 --> 00:37:07,169person and you could see people again.68700:37:07,660 --> 00:37:09,299Uh, that's been huge.68800:37:10,159 --> 00:37:14,630That day, I mean, I couldn't fightback the emotion of just seeing68900:37:14,630 --> 00:37:17,140people back or touching people again.69000:37:17,610 --> 00:37:21,570Um, yeah, you just don't know what wasmissing until it was really missing.69100:37:21,810 --> 00:37:28,215Um, the Some of the unforeseen is,like you said, it's, it's now this69200:37:28,475 --> 00:37:31,265electronic reach and touch that we have.69300:37:31,375 --> 00:37:35,494It's, I was at a hospital,um, out in Indio.69400:37:35,495 --> 00:37:39,414One of our members happened to get sickout there, so they were still out there.69500:37:39,415 --> 00:37:41,384So I drove out there, see the member.69600:37:41,915 --> 00:37:44,355I walked out, was finishedwith our, our member.69700:37:44,865 --> 00:37:47,905And I was walking by another, uh, room.69800:37:48,575 --> 00:37:51,925And there was a family, a couplepeople standing by the door, and69900:37:51,925 --> 00:37:53,295some other people in the room.70000:37:53,765 --> 00:37:56,355And as I was walking by,they were like, Dockery!70100:37:56,355 --> 00:37:58,634You know, turn around,again, I'm in India.70200:37:59,224 --> 00:38:01,064So I turn around, and I'm like, Hey, hi.70300:38:01,615 --> 00:38:04,055And they're like, Pastor Dockery!70400:38:04,705 --> 00:38:06,045Yeah, that's me, that's me.70500:38:06,584 --> 00:38:09,105And they literallysaid, You don't know us.70600:38:09,185 --> 00:38:16,255But we're virtually at church everysingle Sunday, like, Oh, great.70700:38:16,525 --> 00:38:20,435And you know, our family members heresick, you know, you might pray and I'm70800:38:20,465 --> 00:38:21,655like, yeah, we're going to pray for them.70900:38:22,165 --> 00:38:25,424But the point being, havewe not had the pandemic that71000:38:25,435 --> 00:38:26,304probably wouldn't have happened.71100:38:26,624 --> 00:38:28,325And these people are connected.71200:38:28,825 --> 00:38:30,655And said, you're our pastor.71300:38:30,705 --> 00:38:32,225We come every Sunday.71400:38:32,335 --> 00:38:33,435This is our church.71500:38:33,625 --> 00:38:34,365I would have never known.71600:38:34,805 --> 00:38:35,105Right.71700:38:35,105 --> 00:38:37,145And we probably wouldn'teven have this reach.71800:38:37,445 --> 00:38:38,505And that goes on and on.71900:38:38,515 --> 00:38:40,865We look at the metrics of people.72000:38:41,195 --> 00:38:44,724There are people, we have ahuge contingent in Russia.72100:38:45,034 --> 00:38:45,584Huge.72200:38:46,034 --> 00:38:46,345Like huge.72300:38:46,925 --> 00:38:47,165Right.72400:38:47,165 --> 00:38:48,195So where did that come from?72500:38:48,685 --> 00:38:49,375No idea.72600:38:49,845 --> 00:38:54,105Right, but there's a huge contingentof people every single Sunday72700:38:54,105 --> 00:38:56,095that are watching from Russia.72800:38:56,355 --> 00:38:59,385Uh, and then all over the place,and all over, there's a whole lot of72900:38:59,385 --> 00:39:00,435them in Russia for whatever reason.73000:39:01,025 --> 00:39:01,355Right.73100:39:01,785 --> 00:39:02,035Yeah.73200:39:04,305 --> 00:39:07,875You know, it was a tough time, obviously,a lot of loss, a lot of difficulty,73300:39:07,875 --> 00:39:09,555and church still isn't the same.73400:39:09,555 --> 00:39:11,345I mean, but I don'texpect it to be the same.73500:39:11,345 --> 00:39:15,534There's always things that forcecorrections and movement, and this has73600:39:15,534 --> 00:39:16,745been our correction and our movement.73700:39:17,215 --> 00:39:19,114So we just gotta work with it.73800:39:19,115 --> 00:39:19,644Part of the,73900:39:19,645 --> 00:39:21,205Dr William T. Choctaw: one of thethings that has really helped St.74000:39:21,205 --> 00:39:28,620Stephen's is you and church leadershiphad The idea pre pandemic about Zoom74100:39:28,620 --> 00:39:31,290and that sort of thing, you know,it didn't start with the pandemic.74200:39:31,530 --> 00:39:35,330So you were just able to build on that,whereas a lot of other organizations had74300:39:35,330 --> 00:39:39,890to start from scratch when they wantedto, because they had nothing in place.74400:39:39,920 --> 00:39:43,770At least you had some infrastructurethat you can expand and grow on.74500:39:43,770 --> 00:39:49,030But I think that's another way thatGod has blessed us and, and, and, and74600:39:49,040 --> 00:39:51,990grateful also for, for your leadership.74700:39:53,750 --> 00:39:58,130I don't want to keep you too longand you have a great rest of your74800:39:58,130 --> 00:40:00,590Dr. Anthony L. Dockery: Saturday guysdo the same I'll pray for you guys.74900:40:00,590 --> 00:40:01,729I'm grateful for what you're doing.75000:40:01,730 --> 00:40:06,269Let me pray for y'all for this podcastLord continues to use Thank you father.75100:40:06,269 --> 00:40:07,680Thank you for your grace and mercy.75200:40:07,689 --> 00:40:11,949Thank you for being in the midst ofthis time grateful for dr Choctaw and75300:40:11,950 --> 00:40:16,210Lord the heart that you gave him todo this and to serve in his capacity75400:40:16,655 --> 00:40:21,415What we know is countless, and in someways even immeasurable, the impact that75500:40:21,995 --> 00:40:25,304he's having and that they're makingin having this podcast and doing the75600:40:25,765 --> 00:40:29,364masterclass, and I praise you Conceited,use it for your glory, for your honor.75700:40:29,865 --> 00:40:32,844Thank you to Brother Hammonds aswell and his technical prowess and75800:40:32,914 --> 00:40:37,595ability and willingness to serve andto be there to get this word out.75900:40:37,985 --> 00:40:40,405Uh, where we know the topicsand the things that they're76000:40:40,405 --> 00:40:42,435covering, uh, it is so important.76100:40:42,435 --> 00:40:46,225Even dealing with holiday stressesand family and issues, we're putting76200:40:46,225 --> 00:40:49,415words out like that in a timelyfashion, right, when people are76300:40:49,475 --> 00:40:51,654dealing with it, is truly a blessing.76400:40:51,894 --> 00:40:53,345So continue to use both of them.76500:40:53,620 --> 00:40:56,570Bless their households andgive them good health and76600:40:56,590 --> 00:40:58,200strength in Jesus Christ's name.76700:40:58,200 --> 00:40:58,960We love you, Lord.76800:40:59,220 --> 00:40:59,680Amen.76900:41:00,230 --> 00:41:00,660Amen.77000:41:00,760 --> 00:41:00,970Thank you77100:41:00,970 --> 00:41:02,920Jesse L Hammonds: for listeningto this episode of the Healthy,77200:41:02,920 --> 00:41:05,320Wealthy, and Wise podcast with Dr.77300:41:05,320 --> 00:41:05,790William T.77400:41:05,790 --> 00:41:08,529Choctaw, MD, JD.77500:41:08,530 --> 00:41:12,060Be sure to check out other greatepisodes covering areas of health,77600:41:12,259 --> 00:41:16,620wealth, and wisdom at thwwp.77700:41:16,620 --> 00:41:17,110com.77800:41:17,400 --> 00:41:21,010And while you're there, be sure tocheck out the books, blogs, and other77900:41:21,010 --> 00:41:23,160literature in your preferred format.78000:41:23,550 --> 00:41:28,730And don't forget to leave a review,subscribe, share, and support the podcast.78100:41:29,020 --> 00:41:31,820That's at THWWP.78200:41:31,850 --> 00:41:32,500com.78300:41:32,830 --> 00:41:36,679You've been listening to the healthy,wealthy, and wise podcast with Dr.78400:41:36,680 --> 00:41:37,210William T.78500:41:37,240 --> 00:41:39,980Choctaw, MD,78600:41:39,980 --> 00:41:41,120Dr William T. Choctaw: JD.