From Stripes to Suits: A Leader’s Flight Plan for Success in Life’s Missions

100:00:01,150 --> 00:00:03,790Jesse L Hammonds: Welcome to the Healthy,Wealthy and Wise podcast with Dr.200:00:03,790 --> 00:00:04,399William T.300:00:04,399 --> 00:00:09,480Choctaw, MD, JD, where the doctorhelps you unlock your full potential by400:00:09,489 --> 00:00:13,800equipping you with tools and knowledgein the areas of health, wealth, and500:00:13,800 --> 00:00:18,509wisdom, anchored in his experienceas a business executive, a physician600:00:18,519 --> 00:00:23,410surveyor for the joint commission,a former mayor, and over 50 years700:00:23,410 --> 00:00:25,280of experience as a general surgeon.800:00:25,790 --> 00:00:27,900You've got questions, he's got answers.900:00:28,380 --> 00:00:29,270So let's get started.1000:00:29,900 --> 00:00:30,490Here's Dr.1100:00:30,490 --> 00:00:31,080William T.1200:00:31,099 --> 00:00:32,500Choctaw, MD,1300:00:32,810 --> 00:00:33,530Dr. William T. Choctaw: JD.1400:00:34,120 --> 00:00:38,050Why did, why did you andyour wife decide to go?1500:00:38,609 --> 00:00:41,219Were, were there any other reasonsor was that the only factor?1600:00:41,519 --> 00:00:41,879Well, we1700:00:41,879 --> 00:00:43,109Jesse L Hammonds: just had a heart for it.1800:00:43,214 --> 00:00:43,505Okay.1900:00:43,880 --> 00:00:48,640I know that, you know, at leastin my particular case, although I2000:00:48,640 --> 00:00:54,070didn't have to go through anythinglike that I think God every day, you2100:00:54,070 --> 00:00:58,310know for my parents, you know, I wasadopted I was adopted as an infant.2200:00:58,310 --> 00:00:58,340Okay.2300:00:58,440 --> 00:01:01,560Pretty much around the same age as.2400:01:02,070 --> 00:01:05,540At least the process started aroundthe same age as the one that we2500:01:05,540 --> 00:01:07,550got five days after they were born.2600:01:07,720 --> 00:01:11,950My, my trajectory in life couldhave been totally different.2700:01:11,950 --> 00:01:13,820I could have been another statistic.2800:01:15,125 --> 00:01:17,935On one end on the negative end, but,2900:01:17,965 --> 00:01:20,755Dr. William T. Choctaw: Your experiencewas a positive one as a child with3000:01:20,755 --> 00:01:21,745Jesse L Hammonds: adopted parents.3100:01:21,815 --> 00:01:24,875Oh, I, I didn't know thatthere was any difference.3200:01:26,095 --> 00:01:27,135Dr. William T. Choctaw:Which is the ideal.3300:01:27,525 --> 00:01:30,484Jesse L Hammonds: Yeah, I, I didn't,I didn't know anything about any3400:01:30,485 --> 00:01:35,015of that, you know I can rememberthere's, there was some person3500:01:35,015 --> 00:01:36,965called a case worker at the time.3600:01:37,185 --> 00:01:37,605Right.3700:01:38,520 --> 00:01:41,500It didn't, it didn't dawn onme what that was all about.3800:01:41,660 --> 00:01:46,720It was just a a white womanthat would come and talk3900:01:46,720 --> 00:01:49,179with me and ask if everything4000:01:49,179 --> 00:01:49,349Dr. William T. Choctaw: was4100:01:49,349 --> 00:01:54,769Jesse L Hammonds: okay and things of thatnature and I was always determined to show4200:01:54,789 --> 00:02:00,120her that I could read and I could writeand I could, you know, set the other.4300:02:00,620 --> 00:02:01,190I didn't think.4400:02:01,970 --> 00:02:07,760You know, anything about it and andthat's how Ezell and George Hammond's4500:02:07,770 --> 00:02:12,930were they were, they, they just, youknow treated me like I was blood, you4600:02:12,930 --> 00:02:17,909know, and it was just better than somepeople who are blood treat their kids.4700:02:17,949 --> 00:02:18,199Sure.4800:02:18,769 --> 00:02:19,409Dr. William T. Choctaw: Were you an only4900:02:19,409 --> 00:02:19,789Jesse L Hammonds: child?5000:02:19,949 --> 00:02:21,039No actually not.5100:02:21,139 --> 00:02:27,449I have, well, they had a biologicaldaughter Rosalie, we call her Bootsie.5200:02:28,079 --> 00:02:31,439She's still alive although sheWas she older or younger than you?5300:02:31,609 --> 00:02:32,909She's older, she's older.5400:02:33,359 --> 00:02:33,689Okay.5500:02:33,799 --> 00:02:41,969She is, she's 80 and and she'sdealing with diabetes and oh, and5600:02:41,969 --> 00:02:45,624she's on dialysis now, it's a matterof So it was just the two of you?5700:02:45,874 --> 00:02:47,664No, it was myself.5800:02:48,224 --> 00:02:50,954You know, she was, you know,out of the home and growing up.5900:02:51,344 --> 00:02:51,724Got it.6000:02:52,514 --> 00:02:53,644But she would always come over.6100:02:54,194 --> 00:02:56,424But I had a sibling Anthony.6200:02:56,524 --> 00:02:57,444He's younger.6300:02:57,634 --> 00:03:00,645And and Myron another sibling.6400:03:00,655 --> 00:03:07,134He's, he was about four or five monthsolder than I was, he, he eventually6500:03:07,244 --> 00:03:09,195was reunited with his mother.6600:03:09,364 --> 00:03:09,804Okay.6700:03:10,344 --> 00:03:15,444Anthony and myself, we were adoptedAnthony is the opposite of me.6800:03:16,424 --> 00:03:16,824Okay.6900:03:16,914 --> 00:03:17,204Sure.7000:03:17,894 --> 00:03:22,415Well, whatever, you know, whatevergenetics he, he has, he, he's7100:03:22,415 --> 00:03:24,405old, he's the opposite of me.7200:03:24,885 --> 00:03:25,855In, in what way?7300:03:26,245 --> 00:03:33,035Well well, let's let me frame it thisway when I joined the Air Force, which7400:03:33,065 --> 00:03:39,154was, you know, a first for anyone, youknow, in, in the family to go that way.7500:03:39,615 --> 00:03:42,815And, and there was a lot ofreasons why I even went that way.7600:03:42,895 --> 00:03:44,074I'll share that a little bit later.7700:03:44,855 --> 00:03:51,215I, you know, I had to get securityclearances and so the government came7800:03:51,215 --> 00:03:56,355out and they were interviewing people inthe community and my family and and my,7900:03:56,755 --> 00:04:00,574you know, Anthony he had, he had issues.8000:04:00,814 --> 00:04:04,174And so you know, I got theclearance and everything.8100:04:04,704 --> 00:04:08,484But I couldn't really associatewith him because of the people8200:04:08,484 --> 00:04:10,514that he associated with, right.8300:04:10,854 --> 00:04:16,795And so you know, he, that washim, you know, he, he, he chose8400:04:17,055 --> 00:04:19,445a different, you know, lifestyle.8500:04:19,635 --> 00:04:20,025Okay.8600:04:20,505 --> 00:04:23,645And so you know, therewas always something.8700:04:24,160 --> 00:04:28,960Up always something going onand it's a negative negative.8800:04:29,030 --> 00:04:29,350Yes.8900:04:30,460 --> 00:04:30,700So9000:04:30,940 --> 00:04:32,240Dr. William T. Choctaw: whatdid you learn from all that?9100:04:32,370 --> 00:04:34,300I mean, just, just, just that phase of9200:04:34,300 --> 00:04:34,700Jesse L Hammonds: your life.9300:04:34,860 --> 00:04:35,510Hopefully you'll come9400:04:35,510 --> 00:04:36,260Dr. William T. Choctaw: back pretty soon.9500:04:36,260 --> 00:04:37,189There we go.9600:04:37,270 --> 00:04:37,910There you are.9700:04:39,500 --> 00:04:40,660Jesse L Hammonds: But what did you9800:04:40,660 --> 00:04:41,530Dr. William T. Choctaw:learn from all that?9900:04:41,540 --> 00:04:43,260What, what, what was your takeaway?10000:04:43,420 --> 00:04:47,130Jesse L Hammonds: Well, just focuson what I need to do because he's10100:04:47,840 --> 00:04:51,620going to do whatever he's going to do.10200:04:52,210 --> 00:04:58,060And they, my parents didn't want toreally show a whole lot of partiality.10300:04:58,620 --> 00:04:59,850Between us two.10400:04:59,850 --> 00:05:03,650So whenever he got involvedwith something, you know,10500:05:03,780 --> 00:05:04,860it was kind of looked at.10600:05:05,080 --> 00:05:07,430It could have been eitherone of you that did that.10700:05:08,030 --> 00:05:12,580It probably could have been, butit really was in most cases there.10800:05:13,200 --> 00:05:18,820And so I, I was determined tojust focus on what I needed to do10900:05:18,830 --> 00:05:21,000and being the best that I can be.11000:05:21,465 --> 00:05:23,005You know, and whatever that was.11100:05:23,005 --> 00:05:29,485And, and I was quite, I had a very full,you know, childhood, very, very full.11200:05:29,635 --> 00:05:30,915And yeah, I was brought up in the church.11300:05:30,935 --> 00:05:33,364My father was the chairmanof the deacon board and.11400:05:34,100 --> 00:05:37,880And and I usually ranin his circles there.11500:05:38,140 --> 00:05:43,739And and that's how I kind of gotinto a number of different official11600:05:43,740 --> 00:05:47,580and unofficial leadership typeof, you know, situations there.11700:05:48,280 --> 00:05:49,760by Running with him.11800:05:49,970 --> 00:05:55,790But and and in one case thereI was the what we call the11900:05:55,790 --> 00:05:58,160liaison for the Sunday school.12000:05:58,905 --> 00:06:01,115I've always been involved with theSunnyschool in one way or the other.12100:06:02,295 --> 00:06:09,215And my my job, and I was, I couldn'thave been no more than 11 or 12 or12200:06:09,215 --> 00:06:15,624so I was in charge of collecting allthe money from all of the classrooms.12300:06:16,014 --> 00:06:16,444Okay.12400:06:16,694 --> 00:06:22,294As well as making sure that all of theteachers had their, their literature.12500:06:22,424 --> 00:06:23,054And12600:06:23,104 --> 00:06:24,934Dr. William T. Choctaw: so that'squite a bit of responsibility for12700:06:24,934 --> 00:06:25,574Jesse L Hammonds: an 11 year old.12800:06:25,584 --> 00:06:26,554Oh, most definitely.12900:06:26,764 --> 00:06:30,794And, and I really can't recallhow I actually got into it.13000:06:30,795 --> 00:06:36,064It was, I think, especially as itrelates to, to leadership there.13100:06:36,214 --> 00:06:39,384I find that it kind ofstarts with a question.13200:06:39,744 --> 00:06:46,604Like what if this was that way, orthat was this way, and then you take13300:06:46,604 --> 00:06:52,424the initiative to, to do whateverthat is, and someone appreciates13400:06:52,944 --> 00:06:57,184or, or, or likes, whatever thatis, and they let you continue.13500:06:58,414 --> 00:07:04,264And so I think I went into the Sundayschool office with a sister Ferris, I13600:07:04,264 --> 00:07:11,374still remember like it was yesterday and Ijust started helping her, we were talking.13700:07:12,074 --> 00:07:15,754And I just started helping her count themoney, you know, from the Sunday school.13800:07:16,104 --> 00:07:20,114It was all on her and she seemedlike she was just overwhelmed.13900:07:20,164 --> 00:07:24,404You know, she never had, you know, timefor anything or whatever, you know, and14000:07:24,404 --> 00:07:27,634so I would has become a famous phrase.14100:07:27,774 --> 00:07:28,844Let me help you with that.14200:07:28,845 --> 00:07:32,369It's so interesting.14300:07:32,369 --> 00:07:34,564Is this a small church,14400:07:34,564 --> 00:07:34,654Dr. William T. Choctaw: a14500:07:34,654 --> 00:07:35,374Jesse L Hammonds: large church?14600:07:35,384 --> 00:07:37,394It was a large church.14700:07:37,404 --> 00:07:40,024It was about, I guess,around the same size as St.14800:07:40,034 --> 00:07:40,444Stephen.14900:07:40,544 --> 00:07:40,574Okay.15000:07:41,229 --> 00:07:42,574That, that, that's pretty large.15100:07:42,649 --> 00:07:46,299But a lot of firsts because thiswas back in the seventies Okay.15200:07:46,849 --> 00:07:52,244And the church started in a, in a highschool, not started, but one of the15300:07:52,244 --> 00:07:57,264locations that we were, that I canrecall, you know, actually there's15400:07:57,264 --> 00:07:58,984a lot of parallels with the St.15500:07:58,984 --> 00:08:04,574Stephen because it also waswas a product of splitting.15600:08:04,724 --> 00:08:05,164Okay.15700:08:05,514 --> 00:08:08,554It split from Mount Enon in Dayton.15800:08:09,224 --> 00:08:10,314This is all in Dayton.15900:08:10,454 --> 00:08:11,494What city is this?16000:08:11,754 --> 00:08:12,574Dayton, Ohio.16100:08:12,894 --> 00:08:13,224Okay.16200:08:13,619 --> 00:08:17,799Home of the Wright Brothers andUniversity of Dayton Flyers.16300:08:18,299 --> 00:08:18,699Okay.16400:08:18,709 --> 00:08:19,389That's correct, Senator.16500:08:19,389 --> 00:08:21,079And that's where youwent into the Air Force.16600:08:21,559 --> 00:08:25,749Yeah, also the home of WrightPatterson Air Force Base.16700:08:25,759 --> 00:08:26,479Right, right.16800:08:26,529 --> 00:08:26,969Dr. William T. Choctaw: Okay,16900:08:27,289 --> 00:08:27,839Jesse L Hammonds: makes sense.17000:08:28,419 --> 00:08:30,009Dr. William T. Choctaw:And how was school for you?17100:08:30,559 --> 00:08:32,869Junior high, high school, elementary,17200:08:32,889 --> 00:08:33,609Jesse L Hammonds: whatever you remember?17300:08:33,610 --> 00:08:35,129It was all wonderful out there.17400:08:35,329 --> 00:08:37,109I think I was going downthat path there, too.17500:08:37,149 --> 00:08:37,349Huh.17600:08:39,079 --> 00:08:40,669It was, it was all wonderful.17700:08:40,749 --> 00:08:47,419I I was, you know, probably a BC studentand a student, you know, in history.17800:08:47,449 --> 00:08:52,129I know that is that that's somethingthat I embrace that in turn events17900:08:52,139 --> 00:08:55,829and that sort of thing in, in Englishand, you know, and that sort of thing.18000:08:56,329 --> 00:08:57,709No problems there.18100:08:57,709 --> 00:08:59,249I studied music.18200:08:59,390 --> 00:09:03,980Right, right around 12, you know, Iwas what they would call a, a classic18300:09:04,120 --> 00:09:06,730trained, a classically trained trombonist.18400:09:07,110 --> 00:09:11,380Well, yeah, because I could playBeethoven and, and, and, no, no, I18500:09:11,380 --> 00:09:11,780Dr. William T. Choctaw: understand.18600:09:11,860 --> 00:09:13,820I just want to make sureI heard you correctly.18700:09:13,820 --> 00:09:14,240Okay.18800:09:14,420 --> 00:09:14,570All18900:09:14,590 --> 00:09:14,900Jesse L Hammonds: right.19000:09:15,070 --> 00:09:19,670I was in the concert concertoband as well as the jazz lab band,19100:09:19,680 --> 00:09:21,590as well as the marching band.19200:09:22,070 --> 00:09:22,970This is at high school.19300:09:24,385 --> 00:09:27,235No, actually, this wasprior to high school.19400:09:27,815 --> 00:09:29,605It carried on into high school.19500:09:30,075 --> 00:09:35,575This was when I was, a lot of thingshappened when I was 12 and 13 years old.19600:09:35,955 --> 00:09:42,575We were kind of me and a partner of minewere the first and the youngest to ever19700:09:42,935 --> 00:09:44,935have a chair, what they call a chair.19800:09:45,265 --> 00:09:48,605In the band of the marchingband of the senior high school.19900:09:48,985 --> 00:09:50,585So you were in middle school at the time?20000:09:50,735 --> 00:09:51,375Yes.20100:09:51,375 --> 00:09:52,975We weren't even freshmen.20200:09:53,945 --> 00:09:54,405Okay.20300:09:54,735 --> 00:09:59,195And You know, and we,we played those horns.20400:09:59,625 --> 00:10:04,925And we actually formed a band, this isthe 70s, so and I think I alluded to it.20500:10:05,205 --> 00:10:09,235In another interview with one of ourbrothers at the church he was talking20600:10:09,235 --> 00:10:14,855about the people in Gary, Indiana,and I share with him, I'm from Dayton,20700:10:14,855 --> 00:10:22,435Ohio, and that's the home of allkinds of bands, you know, from Zap,20800:10:22,435 --> 00:10:30,830Roger New Human Body slave Dayton,platypus, lakeside, all of these group,20900:10:31,030 --> 00:10:39,090you know, lakeside is famous for thefantastic voyage, those guys any who21000:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,280there was just a lot of music going on.21100:10:42,690 --> 00:10:44,860And so we formed a band ourselves.21200:10:45,180 --> 00:10:50,695And we used to pattern ourselves likeEarth, wind and Fire, you know, and,21300:10:50,800 --> 00:10:52,960and brass construction and Mandrill.21400:10:54,250 --> 00:10:57,760We had electric tape, youknow, reflective tape on us.21500:10:57,760 --> 00:11:01,180And we'd come in from the back withcowbells and then we'd get on stage21600:11:01,185 --> 00:11:05,435and we'd play and we'd win these talentshows and, and that sort of thing here.21700:11:05,585 --> 00:11:09,395And the fact of the matter is wecould actually play and read music21800:11:09,425 --> 00:11:12,125we wrote and, and, and did the music.21900:11:12,245 --> 00:11:15,795And we did that for the, for the marchingband as well under the direction of22000:11:15,825 --> 00:11:18,375Clarence Harold Brown out of Grambling.22100:11:18,875 --> 00:11:19,275Okay.22200:11:19,515 --> 00:11:24,855And, and that's, that's actually how welooked, like the Grambling Band and stuff.22300:11:25,435 --> 00:11:26,065So this is,22400:11:26,105 --> 00:11:27,375Dr. William T. Choctaw:okay, high school, okay.22500:11:27,635 --> 00:11:28,735So what happened after22600:11:28,735 --> 00:11:29,235Jesse L Hammonds: high school?22700:11:29,445 --> 00:11:36,585After high school Well, to get throughhigh school, I was working for I,22800:11:36,655 --> 00:11:41,805you know, I really did idolize my,my dad, you know, not before God22900:11:41,805 --> 00:11:44,325or anything, but right up there.23000:11:44,515 --> 00:11:46,455Because he was a true man of God.23100:11:46,735 --> 00:11:51,795And that was in the home atchurch as well as at work.23200:11:52,865 --> 00:11:54,575And he had a good role model.23300:11:54,775 --> 00:11:55,325Oh, yes.23400:11:55,325 --> 00:11:55,735Yes.23500:11:56,130 --> 00:12:00,510He worked for General Motors, adivision called Delco Delco products.23600:12:01,490 --> 00:12:07,920And so I you know, in my last coupleof years of school, I went to what23700:12:07,920 --> 00:12:12,320they call a joint vocational schooland I studied mechanical drafting.23800:12:12,540 --> 00:12:20,090And so during the summertime I was ableto get a job working for General Motors.23900:12:20,635 --> 00:12:25,245In their engineering departmentand they some kind of way, they24000:12:25,245 --> 00:12:26,925gave me the keys to the office.24100:12:28,805 --> 00:12:31,615I was the person that would go in there.24200:12:31,955 --> 00:12:38,485And turn on all the lights, turn on allthe machines and get everything ready for24300:12:38,485 --> 00:12:43,845the engineers when they came in and wedid, you know, lots of reproduction where24400:12:44,195 --> 00:12:49,485I was in the reproduction area there andthey would give me little, little bitty24500:12:49,485 --> 00:12:55,245products projects and everything to, tochange this line or that line or whatever,24600:12:55,275 --> 00:12:59,385you know, mechanical drafting type ofthing prior to what I was studying.24700:13:01,205 --> 00:13:08,015You know, and you know, the machines weregigantic and the and the the drawings were24800:13:08,015 --> 00:13:13,685gigantic as well, you know, which laterbecame either automobiles or parts for24900:13:13,685 --> 00:13:15,755automobiles and that sort of thing there.25000:13:16,305 --> 00:13:19,765And so I went through that and.25100:13:20,245 --> 00:13:26,775Fast forward to senior year General Motorswere, was offering me you know, a very25200:13:26,775 --> 00:13:33,315nice promotion and an actual position anda, and a job where they're, you know, in25300:13:33,325 --> 00:13:37,855the, well, in the engineering departmentyou know, as a, I guess an apprentice25400:13:37,855 --> 00:13:44,525draftsman and so I, I thought about itbecause, well, here was the, the dilemma.25500:13:45,415 --> 00:13:51,295At the same time I had been testingand had scored, you know, high enough.25600:13:51,725 --> 00:13:55,995To qualify for the Air Forceand so the Air Force, you know,25700:13:56,035 --> 00:13:57,665came calling at the same time.25800:13:57,745 --> 00:14:02,945So I had these two competing thingsthere and I think General Motors,25900:14:02,955 --> 00:14:07,885they had a an education, you know,assistance program as well, but theirs26000:14:07,885 --> 00:14:09,715wasn't as good as the Air Force.26100:14:10,295 --> 00:14:10,765Okay.26200:14:10,845 --> 00:14:11,805What was the difference?26300:14:11,865 --> 00:14:13,785Oh, well the Air Force, they paid 80%.26400:14:14,395 --> 00:14:18,535In General Motors, I'm really notcertain, you know, I'm, I'm assuming26500:14:18,535 --> 00:14:22,075that they have one they weren'tbringing, bringing everything, the26600:14:22,075 --> 00:14:25,405Air Force was bringing everything,they say, hey, we can do this for you,26700:14:25,405 --> 00:14:27,435that, that, that, that, and that, and26800:14:27,435 --> 00:14:29,525Dr. William T. Choctaw: they wouldpay 80 percent of your college26900:14:29,565 --> 00:14:30,395Jesse L Hammonds: expenses.27000:14:31,185 --> 00:14:31,595Yes.27100:14:31,925 --> 00:14:32,245Okay.27200:14:32,455 --> 00:14:35,235So, and, you know, you can see the world.27300:14:35,355 --> 00:14:35,755Okay.27400:14:35,955 --> 00:14:38,405And and that was appealing to me.27500:14:38,505 --> 00:14:42,625You know, Dayton was okay, but,and, and I wanted to see the world.27600:14:42,975 --> 00:14:44,565Yeah, I had been a few places.27700:14:44,615 --> 00:14:46,095I had been to, you know, D.27800:14:46,105 --> 00:14:46,685C.27900:14:47,135 --> 00:14:50,735Because in that position as aliaison for the Sunday school28000:14:51,085 --> 00:14:52,705they sent me places sometimes.28100:14:52,765 --> 00:14:57,525You know, I, I remember the firsttime I was ever homesick was going28200:14:57,525 --> 00:14:59,855to DC and spending the night.28300:14:59,860 --> 00:15:04,535I think we were at the WatergateHotel from Interesting.28400:15:05,140 --> 00:15:08,355And oh, I got homesick there,you know, but then I got28500:15:08,355 --> 00:15:09,825used to being away from home.28600:15:09,975 --> 00:15:12,975And so, at any rate yeah,I chose the Air Force.28700:15:13,500 --> 00:15:16,920And and it was, I thinkit was a great choice.28800:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,110How long were you in there for 12 years,28900:15:20,540 --> 00:15:21,150Dr. William T. Choctaw: 12 years?29000:15:22,875 --> 00:15:23,365What was your29100:15:23,365 --> 00:15:24,235Jesse L Hammonds: rank when you left?29200:15:24,455 --> 00:15:25,825I was a staff sergeant.29300:15:25,865 --> 00:15:26,575Staff sergeant.29400:15:27,545 --> 00:15:30,065Dr. William T. Choctaw: I neverserved in the military, but I was29500:15:30,065 --> 00:15:32,655always told that the sergeantsare the ones that run everything.29600:15:33,315 --> 00:15:33,335Is29700:15:33,345 --> 00:15:33,445that29800:15:33,445 --> 00:15:33,475Jesse L Hammonds: true?29900:15:34,525 --> 00:15:37,805Yeah, there are different levels of that.30000:15:37,995 --> 00:15:45,865In the civilian side, I would probablybe considered probably a second30100:15:45,865 --> 00:15:49,985level because there was an actual,what they called a buck sergeant.30200:15:50,355 --> 00:15:54,305Which would be more orless the first level there.30300:15:54,305 --> 00:15:57,735The staff sergeant could be thatas well, depending on the corporate30400:15:57,735 --> 00:15:58,805The sergeants are basically the30500:15:58,805 --> 00:15:59,505Dr. William T. Choctaw: managers.30600:15:59,605 --> 00:15:59,795They're30700:15:59,795 --> 00:16:02,850Jesse L Hammonds: the ones that They'rewhat's called non commissioned officers.30800:16:02,850 --> 00:16:03,660Right.30900:16:03,660 --> 00:16:04,470NCOs.31000:16:04,470 --> 00:16:04,830Okay.31100:16:05,030 --> 00:16:05,390Yes.31200:16:05,850 --> 00:16:08,570And and I had a, a crew.31300:16:08,740 --> 00:16:10,530And this was initial.31400:16:10,680 --> 00:16:12,650You know, this was justone thing that I did.31500:16:12,700 --> 00:16:16,200That's after I startedgoing up in rank there.31600:16:16,310 --> 00:16:19,160And then other opportunitiespresented itself.31700:16:19,260 --> 00:16:23,230Because I began to getintroduced to technology.31800:16:23,390 --> 00:16:23,800Okay.31900:16:23,990 --> 00:16:31,530In fact I believe, I'm pretty sure thatwe were pioneers, we being the military32000:16:31,530 --> 00:16:33,370were pioneers of the email system.32100:16:33,990 --> 00:16:39,680And I would say the hospital was rightthere as well, but we had to have a32200:16:39,710 --> 00:16:44,720good way of communicating between bases,you know, logistic type of things.32300:16:45,350 --> 00:16:51,850And so that system was Was createdfor us to log into a particular32400:16:51,850 --> 00:16:54,280system and get certain information.32500:16:54,500 --> 00:16:54,910Okay.32600:16:55,200 --> 00:17:00,640And that evolved into just sending thatinformation, you know, in what they32700:17:00,640 --> 00:17:02,400call packets and that sort of thing.32800:17:03,280 --> 00:17:09,120And and then that led on toother, you know, developments in32900:17:09,120 --> 00:17:14,820technology and me getting involvedwith total quality management.33000:17:15,280 --> 00:17:15,690Okay.33100:17:16,745 --> 00:17:18,505Dr. William T. Choctaw: So,for our viewers, tell them what33200:17:18,505 --> 00:17:20,115Total Quality Management is33300:17:20,165 --> 00:17:21,245Jesse L Hammonds: forthe ones who don't know.33400:17:21,605 --> 00:17:28,395Well, Total Quality Management isa a philosophy of, of of how you33500:17:28,415 --> 00:17:31,425approach and And manage quality.33600:17:31,985 --> 00:17:37,805Instead of reinventing the wheel,in all cases there, you would take33700:17:37,895 --> 00:17:41,935what what is working and buildupon that and improve on that.33800:17:42,345 --> 00:17:44,175In a continuous way.33900:17:44,315 --> 00:17:47,935Made famous by, you know, anumber of different quality34000:17:47,935 --> 00:17:50,815gurus most notably Edward Deming.34100:17:52,005 --> 00:17:52,495Dr. William T. Choctaw: In the U.34200:17:52,495 --> 00:17:53,115Jesse L Hammonds: S., right.34300:17:53,475 --> 00:17:56,045Yes, and in his nemesis Mr.34400:17:56,045 --> 00:18:00,725Crosby who was the zero defectguy and we did more Deming.34500:18:00,795 --> 00:18:07,055And so, and this was, this was aprogram that was embraced you know, by34600:18:07,075 --> 00:18:13,365the military, you know, the, the, theCongress pass a lot of legislation.34700:18:13,810 --> 00:18:18,170And we were directed to dothings more efficiently.34800:18:19,065 --> 00:18:22,705We didn't have to worry about budgetsand revenue and things of that nature,34900:18:22,715 --> 00:18:28,945but they didn't want us to waste thingstime or resources or anything like that.35000:18:28,955 --> 00:18:31,155So there was a big push for that.35100:18:31,275 --> 00:18:33,605And at the time.35200:18:34,250 --> 00:18:39,820I was in the right place at the righttime and they offered me the opportunity35300:18:40,380 --> 00:18:47,060to teach and, and well, first to,to learn, you know, TQM and then to35400:18:47,060 --> 00:18:48,980teach the foundation course for it.35500:18:49,090 --> 00:18:49,960So what, what did you35600:18:49,970 --> 00:18:50,900Dr. William T. Choctaw:learn from all of that?35700:18:50,900 --> 00:18:53,010You've sort of risen through the ranks.35800:18:53,040 --> 00:18:56,990You're you know, a higherlevel sergeant in the military.35900:18:57,310 --> 00:18:58,560in the Air Force.36000:18:58,930 --> 00:19:00,980And you're learningtotal quality management.36100:19:01,190 --> 00:19:05,350I might add that one of the waysthat Jess and I intersect is that36200:19:05,370 --> 00:19:09,680I learned total quality managementand Toyota production system36300:19:09,960 --> 00:19:10,180Jesse L Hammonds: and36400:19:10,180 --> 00:19:13,030Dr. William T. Choctaw: those types ofissues on the hospital side because the36500:19:13,030 --> 00:19:16,330hospitals wanted to get more efficient.36600:19:16,610 --> 00:19:21,145And a lot of that had to do withLean Six Sigma, which basically is36700:19:21,155 --> 00:19:23,425having no mistakes and no problems.36800:19:23,755 --> 00:19:29,155And we in the hospital, the hospitalmanagement followed, or follows,36900:19:29,195 --> 00:19:32,545or have followed the military inthat regard, particularly the Air37000:19:32,545 --> 00:19:36,365Force because they figured out away to keep the planes in the sky.37100:19:36,565 --> 00:19:36,895Yes.37200:19:36,895 --> 00:19:41,155And and so that was pretty closeto what we were trying to do in37300:19:41,155 --> 00:19:43,255hospitals to keep patients alive.37400:19:43,770 --> 00:19:46,950And so the two they had, there'sa lot of overlap is what I'm37500:19:46,950 --> 00:19:47,460Jesse L Hammonds: trying to say.37600:19:47,490 --> 00:19:47,910I agree.37700:19:47,970 --> 00:19:49,830I I, I totally agree with that.37800:19:49,860 --> 00:19:53,820And, and, and we'll speak alittle bit about a at and t's37900:19:54,230 --> 00:19:56,350and their six Sigma, right?38000:19:56,350 --> 00:19:56,470That38100:19:56,950 --> 00:19:59,170Dr. William T. Choctaw: cameinto play there, . So, so how,38200:19:59,170 --> 00:20:00,760how did you get to at and t?38300:20:00,760 --> 00:20:03,130Where, where does at andt come into all this?38400:20:03,190 --> 00:20:04,770Jesse L Hammonds: Well after.38500:20:05,190 --> 00:20:10,630After the, the, the, the air force,it, my, my life is just, like I38600:20:10,630 --> 00:20:12,430said, it's just very, very full.38700:20:12,890 --> 00:20:17,730Had I, had I filled out and I willstill do that, filled out that That38800:20:17,750 --> 00:20:21,950interview for there, it, it wouldhave been difficult to try to pick and38900:20:21,950 --> 00:20:27,050choose because a lot, there's a lot ofintersection and a lot of overlap there,39000:20:27,220 --> 00:20:33,040but you know, after, because we were,I was me and about 40, 000 or so people39100:20:33,040 --> 00:20:35,800were downsized out of the air force.39200:20:36,220 --> 00:20:36,920We you39300:20:36,920 --> 00:20:38,190Dr. William T. Choctaw: can get downsized39400:20:38,250 --> 00:20:39,030Jesse L Hammonds: out of the air force.39500:20:39,675 --> 00:20:43,255Yes as a matter of fact, I believethe name of the bill was Graham39600:20:43,325 --> 00:20:45,765Rudman that they were the ground.39700:20:46,765 --> 00:20:53,625Yeah, and so they, that bill, Ibelieve, dictated specifically to the39800:20:53,635 --> 00:20:59,615military that I mean, we were alreadytrying to be as efficient as possible.39900:20:59,625 --> 00:21:01,515They wanted us to be even more efficient.40000:21:02,055 --> 00:21:08,925To the point that they started closingbases in reducing the workforce.40100:21:09,565 --> 00:21:13,225We're, I don't thinkwe're any, well, we were.40200:21:13,700 --> 00:21:18,360Getting ready to get into the firstdesert storm and all of that, but that40300:21:18,530 --> 00:21:25,300it didn't seem to matter to them andso they just started, you know, forcing40400:21:25,330 --> 00:21:34,150people to do things there and I andmy particular what they call a FSC got40500:21:34,190 --> 00:21:39,070called up in that and You know, so Iwas, you know, I've been a technician,40600:21:39,170 --> 00:21:42,090I've been a training instructor.40700:21:42,455 --> 00:21:49,675I've been a teacher, and my last positionwas that of a structural systems designer.40800:21:49,675 --> 00:21:54,795And I'm getting to the AT& T part of it.40900:21:55,935 --> 00:21:57,045Structural systems designer41000:21:57,055 --> 00:21:58,245Dr. William T. Choctaw:sounds like engineering41100:21:58,245 --> 00:21:58,495Jesse L Hammonds: to me.41200:21:58,735 --> 00:22:01,985It, it, it really isn't.41300:22:02,755 --> 00:22:06,895But I guess it could be, but itreally isn't because basically41400:22:06,955 --> 00:22:09,695what it was, we would get projects.41500:22:09,745 --> 00:22:11,675It was a very small group of us.41600:22:12,185 --> 00:22:13,565We would get projects.41700:22:13,565 --> 00:22:17,785In fact, the building isstill out there at Norco.41800:22:17,825 --> 00:22:20,955What used to be Norton AirForce Base in San Bernardino.41900:22:22,155 --> 00:22:26,435Which is now, you know, Amazon andthe Stater brothers distribution42000:22:26,445 --> 00:22:30,125centers and stuff like that,that building is still there.42100:22:30,125 --> 00:22:34,415You know, I still see it, you know,regularly, but any who we would get42200:22:34,455 --> 00:22:38,135projects from various organizations,mostly maintenance organizations,42300:22:38,335 --> 00:22:41,375and this goes to what you weretalking about as far as efficiency.42400:22:41,645 --> 00:22:47,175And we, we were tasked with developingtraining plans for recertification and42500:22:47,175 --> 00:22:54,898certification of Of Air Force personnel,maintenance personnel, and so we were42600:22:54,908 --> 00:23:00,338given, you know, different assignmentsthere, and we would develop a, a teaching42700:23:00,338 --> 00:23:06,748outline and from that teaching outline,we would develop a, a a shot list we42800:23:06,748 --> 00:23:12,998would do both stills and video, and wewould go out, whatever the subject matter42900:23:12,998 --> 00:23:15,098was, we would go out and film more.43000:23:15,528 --> 00:23:22,108You know, film clips images that would,would that would go with the teaching43100:23:22,118 --> 00:23:27,848outline there and then we would develop ascript and then we would voice the script.43200:23:27,908 --> 00:23:30,388We would go into a studio and we would.43300:23:30,813 --> 00:23:35,933Voice the script, the, the videoand, you know, the regular still43400:23:35,933 --> 00:23:38,093photos we developed ourselves.43500:23:38,143 --> 00:23:41,473This was, we would gointo an actual dark room.43600:23:41,663 --> 00:23:44,683I was trained to do that, go intoa dark room and actually, you know.43700:23:44,683 --> 00:23:45,113So, so this43800:23:45,113 --> 00:23:46,583Dr. William T. Choctaw:was military still?43900:23:46,913 --> 00:23:47,673Jesse L Hammonds: Yeah, yeah.44000:23:48,873 --> 00:23:53,593This is all in the, in the Air Forcethere, and then we would put that together44100:23:53,593 --> 00:23:59,623in a package, and then we would then wehad to validate that training program,44200:24:00,083 --> 00:24:06,043and so we would bring in a study groupthis usually took, you know, anywhere44300:24:06,043 --> 00:24:11,693from 60, sometimes 90 days, dependingon the complexity, and we would test,44400:24:11,713 --> 00:24:13,993test, test, test, test until you.44500:24:13,993 --> 00:24:14,007So, yeah.44600:24:14,208 --> 00:24:19,668We got a particular pass ratebased on, you know, the the,44700:24:19,678 --> 00:24:21,448the slide tape or the video44800:24:21,448 --> 00:24:22,528Dr. William T. Choctaw: that we produced.44900:24:22,608 --> 00:24:23,028Okay.45000:24:23,368 --> 00:24:24,468And from that,45100:24:24,878 --> 00:24:28,078Jesse L Hammonds: it was packagedand then, you know, sent out to45200:24:28,078 --> 00:24:31,498the organizations, you know, for,you know, for their training.45300:24:31,648 --> 00:24:32,728And, so45400:24:32,908 --> 00:24:35,618Dr. William T. Choctaw: howdid all of that get to AT& T?45500:24:36,148 --> 00:24:40,308Because you had said that you'vebeen, you've been 25 years at AT& T.45600:24:40,338 --> 00:24:40,588Jesse L Hammonds: That's.45700:24:41,153 --> 00:24:41,673Yeah.45800:24:41,823 --> 00:24:46,563And and that also that's aglimpse into the origins of the45900:24:46,563 --> 00:24:47,893production skills, by the way.46000:24:49,273 --> 00:24:54,233So after, you know, being honorablydischarged from the from the air46100:24:54,233 --> 00:25:01,993force I had some time on my handsand so I had did some well not did46200:25:01,993 --> 00:25:09,533some, I did a lot of studio work as aon air personality and DJ at a radio46300:25:09,533 --> 00:25:12,533station while stationed in Texas.46400:25:13,868 --> 00:25:20,208K A Z I and in fact, we wereinstrumental in changing the sound of46500:25:20,208 --> 00:25:26,908that, of the Of the city of the top 40radio stations at the shift, because46600:25:27,348 --> 00:25:28,858Dr. William T. Choctaw: we were, we were46700:25:28,958 --> 00:25:32,608Jesse L Hammonds: we were moving thecrowd as they say, and I had a, you46800:25:32,608 --> 00:25:37,748know, a show from, you know, startedat like three to 6am in the morning.46900:25:37,758 --> 00:25:40,208And then I got to prime time, 12 to three.47000:25:40,328 --> 00:25:42,678And so at any rate,47100:25:43,038 --> 00:25:44,608Dr. William T. Choctaw:I did that without really47200:25:44,618 --> 00:25:45,248Jesse L Hammonds: any.47300:25:45,683 --> 00:25:48,113Training not, not formal training.47400:25:48,613 --> 00:25:48,713Huh.47500:25:48,723 --> 00:25:53,343And so, after I got out of the AirForce, I said, you know, I I want47600:25:53,343 --> 00:25:55,073to try going to broadcasting school.47700:25:56,073 --> 00:25:58,903You know, kind of the,and so that's what I did.47800:25:59,023 --> 00:25:59,823And,47900:25:59,823 --> 00:26:00,243Dr. William T. Choctaw: It was a school.48000:26:00,243 --> 00:26:00,633You went to48100:26:00,633 --> 00:26:01,723Jesse L Hammonds: broadcasting school?48200:26:02,033 --> 00:26:02,463Yes.48300:26:02,983 --> 00:26:03,223Okay.48400:26:03,473 --> 00:26:04,433On Huntington Beach.48500:26:04,583 --> 00:26:09,843And after well, after I graduated, that,you know, that's another story there.48600:26:09,843 --> 00:26:10,143But.48700:26:10,623 --> 00:26:16,193While in fact, after I graduated Theyhired me on as a guidance counselor,48800:26:16,563 --> 00:26:23,713and so so I stayed at the school, andcounseled students, and there was this48900:26:23,723 --> 00:26:29,093one gentleman that seemed to alwayshave, was challenged with getting to49000:26:29,103 --> 00:26:33,943class on time and he came to classat night, and so, you know, I brought49100:26:33,943 --> 00:26:38,138him into the office and asked him, youknow, so you know, How are you doing?49200:26:38,138 --> 00:26:42,058And, you know, how's everything inyour, your, your life and family?49300:26:42,058 --> 00:26:45,268Is there any other blah, blah, blah,and and I've noticed that, you know,49400:26:45,498 --> 00:26:49,328you're always walking in the, youknow, the door a little bit late there,49500:26:49,358 --> 00:26:50,948you know, what's going on with you?49600:26:51,038 --> 00:26:54,852He says, well it's kind of hardfor me to get off from my feet.49700:26:55,333 --> 00:26:56,733you know, from my job.49800:26:56,743 --> 00:26:58,053I said, Oh, okay.49900:26:58,523 --> 00:26:59,883What type of job it is.50000:26:59,883 --> 00:27:01,393And he explained what it was.50100:27:01,783 --> 00:27:03,403And I said, well, where do you work?50200:27:03,483 --> 00:27:05,623He said, well I work for Pacific Bell.50300:27:05,773 --> 00:27:08,153And I said, Oh, Pacific Bell.50400:27:08,193 --> 00:27:09,133I said, all right.50500:27:09,283 --> 00:27:09,693All right.50600:27:09,693 --> 00:27:13,883Well, and so I gave him some,you know, some options and, you50700:27:13,883 --> 00:27:16,463know, to try to help him, him out.50800:27:16,963 --> 00:27:21,333And, you know, I let the instructors know,you know, what was going on and, you know,50900:27:21,343 --> 00:27:26,123everything, you know, was fine after that,but they kind of stuck in my head that,51000:27:26,263 --> 00:27:29,943okay, you know, this job is rewarding.51100:27:30,438 --> 00:27:36,748You know, but it's not necessarily makingthe ends meet it stuck in my head that he51200:27:36,748 --> 00:27:41,738worked for, you know, a very large companywith a chain of command, a little bit51300:27:41,738 --> 00:27:43,838of a bureaucracy and that sort of thing.51400:27:43,838 --> 00:27:45,838I said, that's similar to the military.51500:27:46,678 --> 00:27:52,408And, and I knew that I had hadsome skills, education and.51600:27:52,898 --> 00:27:58,798And a desire to do more than whatI was doing, which was rewarding.51700:27:59,048 --> 00:28:02,213But again, I felt like I could do more.51800:28:02,373 --> 00:28:07,763And so I looked them up, seenwhere their employment office was.51900:28:07,883 --> 00:28:10,633And before they opened up, I52000:28:10,633 --> 00:28:11,613Dr. William T. Choctaw: was already52100:28:11,613 --> 00:28:12,153Jesse L Hammonds: at the door.52200:28:14,103 --> 00:28:17,223I'm that guy, you know I'm usually52300:28:17,373 --> 00:28:17,833Dr. William T. Choctaw: early52400:28:18,473 --> 00:28:18,903Jesse L Hammonds: to play.52500:28:19,263 --> 00:28:21,813That's when I'm most comfortableand feeling most confident.52600:28:22,023 --> 00:28:25,663And so they hired me on As an operator.52700:28:25,963 --> 00:28:31,263Now, I, I, I think that they had somesort of veterans program as well.52800:28:31,323 --> 00:28:31,703Okay.52900:28:31,933 --> 00:28:36,643I'm, and I may have benefited fromthat, but I, I, I, I'm not certain.53000:28:37,093 --> 00:28:38,983Dr. William T. Choctaw: But didyou feel that your time in the53100:28:38,983 --> 00:28:42,613military helped you educationallyin terms of opening doors to?53200:28:43,143 --> 00:28:43,743Oh, most53300:28:43,803 --> 00:28:46,763Jesse L Hammonds: career opportunitiesand that's most definitely most53400:28:46,763 --> 00:28:50,033definitely however, you get it.53500:28:50,123 --> 00:28:52,853Preparation is, is proper.53600:28:53,103 --> 00:28:59,563You know, you have to get some sortof preparation formally, formally.53700:28:59,563 --> 00:29:06,203And in fact as it relates to,you know, TQM, everything is, is53800:29:06,233 --> 00:29:09,193continuous, you know, you know,as far as learning and everything53900:29:09,203 --> 00:29:10,823goes, you don't ever stop learning.54000:29:10,823 --> 00:29:11,753At least I don't.54100:29:13,353 --> 00:29:18,003But just to wrap up that thetransition from the military to.54200:29:18,728 --> 00:29:24,628thEn Pacific Bell was, was as a resultof that student and he, you know, he54300:29:24,628 --> 00:29:31,398preached my, my, my entrance, my interestand and even at that time, Pacific54400:29:31,398 --> 00:29:36,248Bell was known as a technology type ofcompany, although the quote unquote phone54500:29:36,248 --> 00:29:44,188company and I knew that or felt that,You get in there, something that, excuse54600:29:44,188 --> 00:29:47,618me, many people, including ReverendCollins and others have said, you just54700:29:47,668 --> 00:29:48,908Dr. William T. Choctaw:get your foot in the door.54800:29:49,448 --> 00:29:52,578And then you know, youcan make a difference.54900:29:52,958 --> 00:29:53,528I always55000:29:53,528 --> 00:29:55,398Jesse L Hammonds: feltthat I can do things.55100:29:55,873 --> 00:29:59,103Even before I knew how todo things, I would just,55200:29:59,133 --> 00:30:00,093Dr. William T. Choctaw:I would just do it.55300:30:00,103 --> 00:30:01,373I would just, like I said,55400:30:01,583 --> 00:30:05,053Jesse L Hammonds: start withthat question of what if this or55500:30:05,053 --> 00:30:07,473that was this way or that way?55600:30:07,593 --> 00:30:11,613And then I took the initiativeto try to, you know, make that55700:30:11,643 --> 00:30:12,613Dr. William T. Choctaw: a reality.55800:30:12,743 --> 00:30:14,093And you're willing to take a risk.55900:30:14,613 --> 00:30:15,213Jesse L Hammonds: Yes.56000:30:15,213 --> 00:30:15,563Yeah.56100:30:15,563 --> 00:30:15,912Yeah.56200:30:15,913 --> 00:30:23,223I mean, you know, sometimes calculatedmany times, just a stepping out on56300:30:23,223 --> 00:30:24,923faith, not necessarily leap of faith.56400:30:26,213 --> 00:30:31,873Because that's perhaps foolhardy butactually, you know, being prepared56500:30:31,883 --> 00:30:35,583in some way in other ways, justhaving, you know you know, pure56600:30:35,583 --> 00:30:38,033desire, you know, to do something.56700:30:38,383 --> 00:30:40,163Dr. William T. Choctaw: Well,oftentimes that's the quality56800:30:40,163 --> 00:30:42,302of leadership that you have to.56900:30:42,693 --> 00:30:46,283That everybody wants to do it, andmany may want to do it, but many57000:30:46,283 --> 00:30:48,123times only the leaders will try.57100:30:48,573 --> 00:30:51,703Because there's always the risk offailure, there's always the risk of57200:30:52,183 --> 00:30:56,663looking bad or whatever, whatever thatfear is that one may individually have.57300:30:57,133 --> 00:31:00,983But it sounds like that throughoutyour life you've taken a lot of those57400:31:00,983 --> 00:31:03,353risks, or at least asked the question.57500:31:03,943 --> 00:31:05,043I have, I have.57600:31:05,043 --> 00:31:06,353What if this and what if that57700:31:06,563 --> 00:31:07,183Jesse L Hammonds: type thing.57800:31:07,473 --> 00:31:11,323And then on the flip sideof that, I believe that.57900:31:11,768 --> 00:31:16,508Other people ask that same question andthen they have this part two of that58000:31:16,508 --> 00:31:18,618question, who could we get to do that?58100:31:19,868 --> 00:31:25,768And depending on how you've positionedyourself either intentionally or58200:31:25,768 --> 00:31:29,388unintentionally in the circlesthat you run in or people that you58300:31:29,388 --> 00:31:35,188associate with you know, you becomeknown your, your, your, your product58400:31:35,568 --> 00:31:37,658character and all of that precedes you.58500:31:38,043 --> 00:31:38,433Right.58600:31:38,693 --> 00:31:43,343When something comes up available, youknow, you're one of the first people58700:31:43,343 --> 00:31:47,633that they think of, at least in mymind, I'm thinking that's how it goes.58800:31:47,773 --> 00:31:48,703Dr. William T. Choctaw:No, that makes sense.58900:31:48,703 --> 00:31:50,073That's called networking.59000:31:50,173 --> 00:31:50,463Jesse L Hammonds: Yeah.59100:31:50,853 --> 00:31:56,422Because when I, when when AT&T eventually purchased, well,59200:31:56,422 --> 00:31:58,742we went through SBC and then,59300:31:58,812 --> 00:31:59,092Dr. William T. Choctaw: you know.59400:31:59,102 --> 00:32:03,902Yeah, when they broke up the, thebig telecommunications systems.59500:32:04,102 --> 00:32:06,122Jesse L Hammonds: And startedbringing the bills back together59600:32:06,122 --> 00:32:07,432again, under AT& T again.59700:32:08,552 --> 00:32:08,882Right.59800:32:08,883 --> 00:32:10,578And and I was.59900:32:10,968 --> 00:32:12,718Promoted into management there.60000:32:12,858 --> 00:32:18,648I managed, you know, in a number ofdifferent capacities and looking back60100:32:18,648 --> 00:32:23,608on some of that, you know, I know I had,you know, you know, some education and60200:32:23,608 --> 00:32:27,698some qualifications and that sort ofthing there, but some of the positions60300:32:27,698 --> 00:32:32,618I'm like, I don't know how it, how itgot in there, you know, but I had a60400:32:32,618 --> 00:32:37,068number of mentors as well that thatsaw some things in me, apparently.60500:32:37,483 --> 00:32:40,293Because they were the ones thatwere tapping me on the shoulder60600:32:40,293 --> 00:32:44,863saying, Hey, I think you wouldbe good in this position here.60700:32:45,363 --> 00:32:47,373And and I'm like, okay.60800:32:48,173 --> 00:32:50,913Dr. William T. Choctaw: And that'sanother requisite that you need60900:32:51,063 --> 00:32:52,713regardless of who you are or what area.61000:32:52,923 --> 00:32:53,613You need help.61100:32:53,813 --> 00:32:54,893We all need help.61200:32:54,893 --> 00:33:00,263I clearly had a lot of people who helpedme that I didn't know why or whatever.61300:33:00,493 --> 00:33:03,963And I think it's good torecognize that, that, that.61400:33:04,488 --> 00:33:08,438However good you are or good you thinkyou are, whatever you, we all need help.61500:33:09,053 --> 00:33:09,333Jesse L Hammonds: Yes.61600:33:10,243 --> 00:33:10,623And that61700:33:10,633 --> 00:33:13,933Dr. William T. Choctaw: that's what getsus to that next level or they write that61800:33:13,933 --> 00:33:18,873good letter or they give that good word ofrecommendation, et cetera, et cetera, that61900:33:18,873 --> 00:33:21,383that we're connected in multiple ways.62000:33:21,603 --> 00:33:25,573Well, what would you say would bethe, the top two or three things that62100:33:25,583 --> 00:33:30,283you've learned, you know, today goingthrough all of that through the, you62200:33:30,283 --> 00:33:35,173know, your upbringing at home andyou know, high school, the things62300:33:35,173 --> 00:33:36,983that you did through the military.62400:33:37,308 --> 00:33:39,738What, what, what, what are thetop two or three things that62500:33:39,758 --> 00:33:44,518stick out that that, that you'velearned that sort of guides you now62600:33:44,728 --> 00:33:45,148Jesse L Hammonds: to date?62700:33:45,468 --> 00:33:51,188Top two or three things would be justto, you know, never, never, never62800:33:51,188 --> 00:33:53,508give up, you know, to stay safe.62900:33:54,528 --> 00:33:55,628Stay, stay focused.63000:33:55,628 --> 00:33:58,628You know that you have God on your side.63100:33:58,648 --> 00:34:00,418I was all, I was raised that63200:34:00,428 --> 00:34:00,768Dr. William T. Choctaw: way.63300:34:01,048 --> 00:34:02,388You know that63400:34:02,778 --> 00:34:06,748Jesse L Hammonds: when things get tough,you just start praying, you know, you63500:34:07,608 --> 00:34:13,208continue praying, you know, you, youtry to always as the saying goes, if you63600:34:13,208 --> 00:34:14,858stay ready, you don't have to get ready.63700:34:15,338 --> 00:34:16,058If you stay63800:34:16,098 --> 00:34:19,238Dr. William T. Choctaw: prayed up, thenyou're always in that frame of mind.63900:34:19,238 --> 00:34:20,833Right.64000:34:21,133 --> 00:34:23,893Jesse L Hammonds: With, you know,the, the teaching of the Bible to64100:34:24,373 --> 00:34:27,043Dr. William T. Choctaw: alwaysbe in, in a prayerful, you know,64200:34:27,193 --> 00:34:28,693always have the prayerful attitude.64300:34:28,708 --> 00:34:28,998Okay.64400:34:28,998 --> 00:34:30,158Pray without cing.64500:34:30,728 --> 00:34:31,018Okay.64600:34:32,153 --> 00:34:33,803Jesse L Hammonds: It'salso translated to be.64700:34:34,423 --> 00:34:39,403And so that as well as , anotherscripture and I've had it64800:34:39,403 --> 00:34:41,833throughout my whole life Roman 28.64900:34:42,163 --> 00:34:47,483And that is that all things worktogether, you know, for good, for those65000:34:47,483 --> 00:34:47,668Dr. William T. Choctaw: who love.65100:34:48,478 --> 00:34:48,888God.65200:34:49,418 --> 00:34:49,848Jesse L Hammonds: Okay.65300:34:50,068 --> 00:34:56,898According to, according to yourcalling, you know, due to, to his65400:34:56,898 --> 00:34:58,688purpose, which becomes your purpose.65500:34:59,088 --> 00:34:59,998And,65600:35:00,458 --> 00:35:00,838Dr. William T. Choctaw: and I've65700:35:00,848 --> 00:35:01,608Jesse L Hammonds: always been65800:35:01,618 --> 00:35:03,808Dr. William T. Choctaw:about helping others.65900:35:04,418 --> 00:35:07,548I've always used that phrase.66000:35:07,708 --> 00:35:10,048Jesse L Hammonds: I canhelp you with that, or I can66100:35:10,048 --> 00:35:10,878Dr. William T. Choctaw: help with that.66200:35:11,108 --> 00:35:13,758Because it's always been66300:35:13,778 --> 00:35:14,048Jesse L Hammonds: in66400:35:14,048 --> 00:35:16,318Dr. William T. Choctaw: me and I believe66500:35:16,328 --> 00:35:20,058Jesse L Hammonds: that is a resultof, you know, the leadership of66600:35:20,078 --> 00:35:25,608my, my mother and my father, youknow, you know, they always, you66700:35:25,608 --> 00:35:28,268know, helped others and others.66800:35:28,338 --> 00:35:33,748And a lot of people came to them, youknow, I, that's what I saw a whole lot66900:35:33,748 --> 00:35:37,488to my, my guy, my father was a wise guy.67000:35:38,013 --> 00:35:41,793You know and people wouldalways come to him and he only67100:35:41,793 --> 00:35:43,313had a seventh grade education.67200:35:44,318 --> 00:35:46,728Dr. William T. Choctaw: Buthe knew that Bible backwards67300:35:46,728 --> 00:35:47,568Jesse L Hammonds: and forwards.67400:35:47,568 --> 00:35:52,188He was the director, what we calla training for service, which67500:35:52,408 --> 00:35:56,128also called BTU back in the day.67600:35:56,178 --> 00:35:58,248And my mother, she was on the usher board.67700:35:58,468 --> 00:36:02,368But my dad, he was, he wasrenowned and, and, and revered,67800:36:02,528 --> 00:36:04,028Dr. William T. Choctaw:you know everywhere.67900:36:04,198 --> 00:36:07,628Jesse L Hammonds: And itused to tickle him as to.68000:36:08,163 --> 00:36:12,453the heights that he's he wasable to attain and he you know68100:36:12,553 --> 00:36:14,193he gives it all to the Lord.68200:36:14,223 --> 00:36:16,333And I, and that was my example.68300:36:16,873 --> 00:36:21,873And I've used that, you know, throughoutmy life it has, it has helped me cause68400:36:21,873 --> 00:36:27,663I've, you know, I've been throughsome, some valleys and and, and I feel68500:36:27,663 --> 00:36:29,693sorry for those that don't have hope.68600:36:29,743 --> 00:36:29,993I,68700:36:30,033 --> 00:36:33,553Dr. William T. Choctaw: Ialways have hope and it's based68800:36:33,563 --> 00:36:37,173in, you know, scripture and,68900:36:37,213 --> 00:36:40,053Jesse L Hammonds: and it hasproven to be real for me.69000:36:41,073 --> 00:36:42,683Dr. William T. Choctaw: Had to test it69100:36:42,733 --> 00:36:43,993Jesse L Hammonds: in a number of cases69200:36:44,123 --> 00:36:44,363Dr. William T. Choctaw: there.69300:36:44,823 --> 00:36:47,053And it's like, Lord,69400:36:47,053 --> 00:36:48,903Jesse L Hammonds: if you'renot for real, I'm not69500:36:48,903 --> 00:36:49,333Dr. William T. Choctaw: here.69600:36:51,203 --> 00:36:54,853Well, there's no question that Ithink your hope and your faith.69700:36:55,323 --> 00:37:00,003Which was established for you by yourparents very, very early and certainly69800:37:00,013 --> 00:37:07,253have sustained you throughout your life interms of being selected to be leaders or a69900:37:07,263 --> 00:37:12,623leadership roles very, very young, whetherin church or other types of place all the70000:37:12,623 --> 00:37:15,039way through the Air Force through AT& T.70100:37:15,039 --> 00:37:20,723And I, I can honestly say that would beno Healthy, Wealthy and Wise podcast.70200:37:21,153 --> 00:37:26,243But, but for your involvement, becauseyou had the idea and it's those ideas70300:37:26,243 --> 00:37:29,033that basically take us to the next level.70400:37:29,833 --> 00:37:31,953I, I know that you are avery, very busy person.70500:37:32,003 --> 00:37:33,863I want to be respectful of your time.70600:37:34,103 --> 00:37:39,183Are there any parting thoughts that youwould like to leave with us before we70700:37:39,183 --> 00:37:39,813Jesse L Hammonds: let you go?70800:37:40,013 --> 00:37:41,523Stay tuned for part two.70900:37:41,678 --> 00:37:44,882Dr. William T. Choctaw: I'm71000:37:44,882 --> 00:37:48,085Jesse L Hammonds: looking,71100:37:48,085 --> 00:37:51,288Dr. William T. Choctaw: I'm71200:37:51,288 --> 00:37:53,828Jesse L Hammonds: looking downbecause I had jotted down a few71300:37:53,828 --> 00:37:59,258things there and cause as you mightimagine over a 25 year period career71400:37:59,258 --> 00:38:01,338at AT& T and lots of stuff happened.71500:38:01,498 --> 00:38:01,788No,71600:38:01,798 --> 00:38:02,878Dr. William T. Choctaw:no, no, that's fine.71700:38:03,098 --> 00:38:03,278I71800:38:03,318 --> 00:38:06,538Jesse L Hammonds: office, and this isalong the lines of leadership as well.71900:38:06,568 --> 00:38:13,098I, I was leading a, a group of whatthey called RAs or, or which were72000:38:13,098 --> 00:38:20,268basically people that received ordersand they redid the order in the system.72100:38:20,618 --> 00:38:22,778They systems work,72200:38:24,238 --> 00:38:25,428Dr. William T. Choctaw:but the, the recent72300:38:25,438 --> 00:38:28,108Jesse L Hammonds: chainmanagement or maintenance area.72400:38:28,888 --> 00:38:33,298At any rate we received a call,it was urgent, President Reagan72500:38:33,298 --> 00:38:38,258had died, and so they had to puttogether teams, you know, to get72600:38:38,418 --> 00:38:39,968Dr. William T. Choctaw:things ready up there72700:38:40,108 --> 00:38:41,608Jesse L Hammonds: Wherewhere's the library at?72800:38:41,918 --> 00:38:45,728I forget, wherever the librarywas, or eventually was.72900:38:46,253 --> 00:38:46,673Okay.73000:38:46,923 --> 00:38:47,493So we,73100:38:47,913 --> 00:38:48,303Dr. William T. Choctaw: there was a73200:38:48,303 --> 00:38:52,563Jesse L Hammonds: lot of orders in,and the orders were just packets73300:38:52,563 --> 00:38:56,823of, of information that, that youhad to build phone lines, you had to73400:38:56,828 --> 00:39:02,203build conduits and all that, all, allelectronically to send out to the field73500:39:02,203 --> 00:39:06,793for the, the men and women to go outand, and do the construction part of it73600:39:06,793 --> 00:39:08,473Dr. William T. Choctaw: toset up for this funeral.73700:39:08,743 --> 00:39:10,713And we had to done stack.73800:39:11,133 --> 00:39:13,983Well, I think that that's a,that's an excellent cliff anger.73900:39:14,983 --> 00:39:15,653To, to leave74000:39:15,653 --> 00:39:16,130Jesse L Hammonds: it.74100:39:16,130 --> 00:39:18,703Like I said, it can go74200:39:18,703 --> 00:39:20,370Dr. William T. Choctaw: wherever.74300:39:20,370 --> 00:39:29,133What happened with within andoutside of AT& T when the President74400:39:29,223 --> 00:39:30,953of the United States died?74500:39:31,333 --> 00:39:31,613Yes.74600:39:31,823 --> 00:39:33,423And what, what was involved?74700:39:33,683 --> 00:39:34,843And, and clearly.74800:39:35,313 --> 00:39:37,453I'm sure you would have someinsights that most of us would74900:39:37,453 --> 00:39:39,033never know or would never have.75000:39:39,323 --> 00:39:42,563But we want to thank you foryour, your very precious time and75100:39:42,563 --> 00:39:45,103thank you for being with us today.75200:39:45,563 --> 00:39:51,693And we will be in touch andto, to develop part two.75300:39:52,123 --> 00:39:52,393Yes.75400:39:52,393 --> 00:39:53,913Of our interview with Jesse L.75500:39:53,913 --> 00:39:54,353Hammonds.75600:39:54,983 --> 00:39:57,393For those of you who arewatching please remember.75700:39:57,783 --> 00:40:03,393That this is one of our many podcasts thatwe do approximately one podcast per week.75800:40:03,833 --> 00:40:08,143And we ask that you continue tofollow us and become patrons.75900:40:08,493 --> 00:40:12,923And we'll, as we alwayslike to say, be the change.76000:40:13,398 --> 00:40:15,188that you want to see in the world.76100:40:15,418 --> 00:40:16,888Thank you very, very much.76200:40:17,428 --> 00:40:17,998Have a great76300:40:17,998 --> 00:40:18,148Jesse L Hammonds: evening.76400:40:18,848 --> 00:40:21,518Thank you for listening to thisepisode of the Healthy, Wealthy,76500:40:21,518 --> 00:40:23,588and Wise podcast with Dr.76600:40:23,588 --> 00:40:24,068William T.76700:40:24,068 --> 00:40:26,808Choctaw, MD, JD.76800:40:26,808 --> 00:40:30,338Be sure to check out other greatepisodes covering areas of health,76900:40:30,598 --> 00:40:34,878wealth, and wisdom at thwwp.77000:40:34,898 --> 00:40:35,358com.77100:40:35,678 --> 00:40:39,288And while you're there, be sure tocheck out the books, blogs, and other77200:40:39,288 --> 00:40:41,438literature in your preferred format.77300:40:41,838 --> 00:40:43,168And don't forget to leave a review.77400:40:43,658 --> 00:40:47,048Subscribe, share and support the podcast.77500:40:47,288 --> 00:40:48,128Dr. William T. Choctaw: That's at t77600:40:49,383 --> 00:40:50,828Jesse L Hammonds: wwp.com.77700:40:51,098 --> 00:40:54,998You've been listening to the Healthy,wealthy and Wise Podcast with Dr.77800:40:54,998 --> 00:40:56,108William t Choctaw.77900:40:56,528 --> 00:40:57,818MDJD.